Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello All, I just committed myself to a purchase of .2 Caramel Albinos from Josh at Rare Creations and my wife is freaking out. She has been pretty cool up until now, but she is worried that once we start producing offspring that we will be stuck with them.

So what I would like to know is approx. how many babies you produced last season
and how many of them you held back and sold/traded. Also I would like to know through what channels you did the most business (example: classifieds, shows, local pet stores, ect.) I am not concerned with how much money you made, just want an ideal of how easy or hard it is to move the babies.

And please!!! I am not wanting to start a discussion on how Great or terrible the Ball Pyhton market is. Everyone has thier own opinions on that subject and they have been expressed here many times before.

Thanks Jeff

Kingsnake is a grat tool to sell ball pythons ..But you also need to market your product..the best way is through your own Web Site.Also attend show's and get your name out there this will also help with selling your snakes.

It's somewhat a dumb question. You aren't going to be over run with pythons they just don't produce enough eggs for that. what did you buy babies? It will be some time before you breed them and that's premature any way because who says they will actually breed , who says you will hatch the eggs correctly.who says they won't be deformed. Many factors... you are getting way ahead of yourself. After all! the if's are done if you want to just get rid of them than sell them to a wholesaler for the going wholesale price and be done. But if you want to get hundreds more than the price and wait for some schmuck to buy them it can take a while.
You are counting eggs before they hatch this is so funny hahahahah!!!! I hate to be this way but come on down to reality!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's ridiculous....

I don't want to insult but come on! really!!!!!!!

We produced 35 clutches....not a ton but good for being "in the game" for only 3 years. We sold out completely about 3 weeks ago. We retailed most of our production and wholesaled off a little bit.....at going rate retail and wholesale prices. We ran a few adds on KS and moved some stuff that way, we also sold some off of our website (which is finally being updated) and the rest through our store. If you take care of your customers they will return......its simple business. You dont have to be the cheapest guy on KS to move a snake. We think the market is great.....compare your rate of return against any other investment and I think you will find Ball Pythons beat just about anything if done right.....and those are the key words. The days of $25,000 snakes may be gone for all but a few breeders.....but the market is very good for the $500 to $5000 range. If you cant make money at those prices......you are the type that should always work for someone else. The breeders that have called looking for snakes in the last month is amazing......the supply has dried up MUCH faster than what everyone expected. Im not saying there is nothing available.....but the sky has not fallen as many had predicted. I guess I just wanted to say that if you want to get into this.......dont let anyone tell you its too late or its over. Money is being made by those with a little common sense.....and hell I know a few making money with no sense.....LOL!!! GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE IN 2007!!!!

Brian Potter
Chicago Reptile House
NARBC
Link

Thanks for your input. This is what I was looking for. I am sure with your attitude you will continue to do well.

Thanks again, Jeff

Thanks for your reply, but my question was not what am I going to do with the babies I produce, my question was what are other breeds doing with the babies they produce.
I am not insulted by your reply, but I think refering to the people who may puchase reptiles as smucks is insulting to the hobby. And just for your info I have been raising and breeding reptiles( mostly snakes ) since I was 11 years old, some 30 years experience. And I never count my eggs before they hatch.

Jeff

1.2 pastel Columbian Boas
1.2 Borneo Shorttail pythons (male is granite, females are ultra briet siblings)
1.1 Nerd line pastel (male is poss. het for caramel)
0.2 Graziani line pastels
0.3 high white spiders
1.1 high contast albinos
1.0 100% het albino
0.2 66% poss. het albinos
1.1 100% het Piebalds
1.1 Nerd line orange ghosts
1.0 ringer poss. het piebald
And soon to be 0.2 caremel albinos

I think that is a safe investment and the Market is alive and well. The real high end is not what it used to be since there are so many potions. The mid level and lower levels sell, this is what many people are shooting at so things are decent. This summer was slow..... it has picked up agian and i even know quite a few mid level breeders that have nearly sold out and just have some stray critters left. This is what I wait for and start selling when many others are running a bit dry. We just need to keep bringing in new people to keep it expanding!!!

Kevin
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We produced close to 400 babies this last season , and we currently only have 6 left for sale and we held back close to 75. The rest were sold or traded. This coming season we are looking to produce close to 1000 plus if things go as plan which they are looking too. We sold most of our hatchlings early in the season. We also have alot of package deals we set up for other breeders. We do best at shows, people get to see first hand what you have to offer and they get to put a face with the name, it also helps to build a good reputation for yourself. We also sell here on KS, and things sell well, not always steadily but over time they move. Also if you are advertising on KS it helps to get your name out there and a website is a big plus, it is like an online store, it shows off your collection and quality of animals.
Good luck in your projects
Caramels are one of my favorites
Kim

Hello Kim, Thanks for your time. Good luck reaching a 1000.
I always enjoy reading your post and replies.

Jeff

Kevin, Thanks for the reply. Its always good to see that someone with your stature in the trade can come down from upon high or up from the depth of hell, which ever the case may be,
to share your experience. Savy business sense, strategy and killer morphs, who say evil doesn't pay.

Thanks Jeff

I did about $30-40K in trades, and about a tenth of that in actual cash sales. Five years ago, maybe one out of a hundred ads stated "No Trades." I bet one out of five say that now. That tells me that the trade market is very alive and well. You can pretty much find a trade for any snake you have. Cash sales are somewhat harder to find. If you are small time, and have ONLY Hets to sell, good luck. If you are small time, and have Hets and Homozygous animals to sell, you should have better results, because you can post an ad with Het Albinos and Albinos, Het Axanthics and Axanthics, but trying to sell just Hets is tough. Caramels are nice, but the whole kinking issue is going to make Caramels a tougher sale than an animal that is not known for flaws. I also do not buy the whole "only buy recessives" talk either. A good mix of Co Doms and Recessives is the way to go. Caramels are nice, I would do crosses with them...Hypo Caramel, Mojave Caramel, etc.

Dave

Dave, Thanks for your reply. I ve been ready the post on here
for a quite awhile and I know that some don't always agree with what your saying. We have a saying at work "It is what it is".
Here is a list of what I am currently working with.

1.2 pastel Columbian Boas
1.2 Borneo Shorttail pythons (male is granite, females are ultra briet siblings)
1.1 Nerd line pastel (male is poss. het for caramel)
0.2 Graziani line pastels
0.3 high white spiders
1.1 high contast albinos
1.0 100% het albino
0.2 66% poss. het albinos
1.1 100% het Piebalds
1.1 Nerd line orange ghosts
1.0 ringer poss. het piebald
And soon to be 0.2 caremel albinos

Just tring to mix it up a little. I am hoping to add a many more, but short term I think a Cinny male and a 1.1 pair of Yellow bellies would fit in nice. Not super impressed with mojaves, but Lessers/Butters, Axanthics and maybe a pinstripe or two wouldn't hurt either. As far the Caramels go I think they are worth my time, kinks or not.

Jeff

P.S. I don't get tired of looking at snake pics no matter how many times they are posted.

Jeff, it looks as though you have a really nice collection started man, and you cannot go wrong with a couple of Caramel girls, especially if you have a Pastel Possible Het Caramel male. Josh is a great guy, glad you are buying from a guy who is an asset to the Ball community. YB's are a good buy, maybe even get a couple of YB females and a Pastel YB male, or YB Mojave male...have you seen the one on the Sutherland's site, AWESOME. I personally like the Mojave, and will only buy a Lesser or Butter if it is high, high yellow. As far as Mojaves go, with the prices the way they are, a NICE male Mojave is not a bad way to go, but only get a high yellow one. I do not know why, but I have always been a big Mojave fan, the crosses are spectacular. As for Pins, oh yeah, one of my top 10 favorite morphs. I saw them at Anahiem in 05 and they were $25K...way out of my price range. I picked up a female and love the look, and the golden color. Look at the Hypo Mojaves, I still think that is a solid project. Good luck this year and next!

Dave

Thanks Dave, I have not seen the YB Mojave at SnakeKeeper, but I will check it out.
And I never said wouldn't get a Mojave, just not as high on my priority list right now.
And Dave you could not have used the word Mojave any more in that last reply unless you had a sentence that went something like this. Mojave,Mojave,Mojave,Mojave,
Mojave,Mojave,Mojave, did I mention Mojave.

Have a great holiday,

Jeff

P.S. I tried that vacation thing. She said thats fine, but going to pet stores in other
cities and states is not her ideal of a vaction. I forgot the part about she gets to pick
the place, ah I' am sure there will be at least one pet shop.

i only wish i produced more. i talk to lots of people with snakes, and hear all different kinds of opinions. negative people generally get negative results and vice versa. ball pythons are only worth what YOU can get someone to pay you for them. and a little reality has to enter the picture, a muddy brown pastel won't sell as fast, or for as much as a bright yellow jungly one. do a better job than the average, be realitic but not cutthroat on prices,take good care of your customers, you should do fine. two female caramels? great move. kurt d.

I95east, I usually take it north and sometimes south, but to each his own LOL. Thanks for the reply Kurt. I hear what you're saying. My dad use to say two things, "I'd rather have what you owe then what you own". What ever dad. And "the value of something is what ever the market will bare". Hum, if you can get 25,000 then it's worth 25,000, if you can only get 500.00 then i guess it's only worth 500.00, if you can really place a value on something like keeping herps. I do what i do because it is what I love to do. What my wife means by getting stuck with, is what I mean by expanding my collection. With my current collection I am hoping to create not only pastels, spiders, bumble bees, super pastels, albinos, albino spiders, piebalds, honey bees, orange ghost, pastel orange ghost, carmel albinos, pastel carmel albinos ect, ect, but sameday perhaps even a carmel glow. All of that represents considerable time and effort, plus a whole lot of holdback, just don't tell my wife that. And hell that doesn't include future plans. Man she gonna be pisssssed

Jeff

Do what I do, tell her the snakes will pay for a vacation every year, and the vacation is her choice, guaranteed to work!

Dave

jeff, one of my friends i work with every day put about 12 grand into albinos and hets in 2003 and 2004. albinos were 2500., and female hets were about a grand. he produced and kept a dozen female hets last year. this year he got his first albinos. he had 19 albinos, and at least another dozen female hets. he traded a couple albinos to amir for a male spider and a male cinnamon. he is trading a couple more to his rat dealers so he never has to buy a rat in 07. so not counting 20 something female hets, he still has 15 killer little albinos to work with, and should easily cover his investment. and every snake he produces from here on out from his albino project [ and his spider and cinny ] is mostly profit. and he's not doing something he hates. you've got the right ideas with all those double morph ambitions. best of luck, i agree with potter, the market is strong. kd

Thanks Kurt, you have a great holiday

Jeff

Jeff, get rid of your wife and build her closet into an incubator.