Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I choose to call the ones that look like Crimsons, well, Crimsons. The same goes for Hypo Miamis. In my collection only the animals that retain rich red saddles and a clean silver background earn the name "Hypo Miami".
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>>Carol Huddleston
>>www.lowbellyreptiles.com

This is something that has always made me sit back and say HUH?
"Hypo Miamis" are the ones with the deepest, richest reds while "Crimsons" seem to be the more normal looking hypomelanistic miami corn?

I would think it would be just the opposite.
I would think to qualify as a "Crimson" it would have to have the deepest, richest reds you could find on a miami expressing hypomelanism.

I would think that the Hypo Miami would be your standard Miami expressing hypomelanism.

Isn't "crimson" a very deep rich red?

Not trying to start an argument or cause a problem I am just curious as to how the distinction, in your case, was made.
I just don't know enough about Miamis.
I do know of all the Miamis I have seen posted over the last couple of years the ones I have seen produced by you have been the best. Best overall look. Definitely the best contrast.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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Back in the early 90s, about when Rich was independently creating what he calls crimson, I was making what I called hypo Miami. I made mine just like he did. Hypo X Miami phase. Back then, we sometimes had the same confusing results we do today. I recall breeding some of my hypo together and either getting no hypos or both normals and hypos. Today, enough breeding of corns has transpired to indicate there are possibly more hypo genes in corns than we are evidently aware.

In the past few years, enough of my customers have reported to me that when they breed a SMR hypo Miami to a crimson or other variation of hypo, they don't get hypos. Either I originally used a pseudo-hypo (phenotypic hypo) that was actually not that way from recessive genetic forces OR mine was a different recessive hypo not allelic to the same hypo A Rich used. Regardless, since hypo is in the name and I haven't yet proven what hypo is at work in mine, I'm going to change the name of this morph. The banded motley examples will be called banded Miami motlies and the non motlies will be banded Miamis. I guess you could say that in typical Soderberg fashion, I'm attempting to reduce confusion by creating the different confusion of changing snakes in the middle of the pool. The gene pool. I just don't know what else to do in the absence of knowing why the patriarchs of this line were so hypo looking. Even if I discover it's not the same hypo gene, it will need a new name so in an effort to be as accurate as possible with the name, I'm eliminating the "hypo" part of the name.

Thanx for bringing this up. I am addressing the issue in my next book and this winter, I'm changing my web site to that effect.

Don
www.cornsnake.NET
South Mountain Reptiles

>>Back in the early 90s, about when Rich was independently creating what he calls crimson, I was making what I called hypo Miami. I made mine just like he did. Hypo X Miami phase. Back then, we sometimes had the same confusing results we do today. I recall breeding some of my hypo together and either getting no hypos or both normals and hypos. Today, enough breeding of corns has transpired to indicate there are possibly more hypo genes in corns than we are evidently aware.
>>
>>In the past few years, enough of my customers have reported to me that when they breed a SMR hypo Miami to a crimson or other variation of hypo, they don't get hypos. Either I originally used a pseudo-hypo (phenotypic hypo) that was actually not that way from recessive genetic forces OR mine was a different recessive hypo not allelic to the same hypo A Rich used. Regardless, since hypo is in the name and I haven't yet proven what hypo is at work in mine, I'm going to change the name of this morph. The banded motley examples will be called banded Miami motlies and the non motlies will be banded Miamis. I guess you could say that in typical Soderberg fashion, I'm attempting to reduce confusion by creating the different confusion of changing snakes in the middle of the pool. The gene pool. I just don't know what else to do in the absence of knowing why the patriarchs of this line were so hypo looking. Even if I discover it's not the same hypo gene, it will need a new name so in an effort to be as accurate as possible with the name, I'm eliminating the "hypo" part of the name.
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>>Thanx for bringing this up. I am addressing the issue in my next book and this winter, I'm changing my web site to that effect.
>>

Thanks Don,
I knew yours and Rich's lines were different, I just didn't realize there was a possibility of different hypos working or even the possibility of a non hypo "hypo Miami"
looking forward to your new book and any new information discovered along the line.
thanks
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Ya know I always take advice from you very seriously Don. I am glad to see this post as I am attempting to decipher some genetics in Pines over on the Pit forum. I am a pretty familiar name over there but I am not getting much feedback as of yet. The few people that are taking it seriously though see my point that it is never too late to make a correction in a situation like this. It's not something we can decipher overnight, but hopefully by the time a mutual friend of ours gets his new book going I will have something new to contribute. I really like to see people make an effort to be as specific as possible concerning morphs. They're each great on thier own....but when mixing and matching we all hope things turn out the way we thought they would in the end....great work as usual
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

I really should have done this two years ago when the first reports started coming in. All the usual excuses apply. grin.

Yeah, like you, I think the shortest name for a corn morph that says as much as it possibly can is what we need more of. I dislike names for corns that don't readily apply. When I hear "lavender corn", I get a mental expectation that is satisfied when I see a lavender corn. When I hear "butter corn", I expect yellow and I'm satisfied when I see it. Even though real butter is not yellow, "margarine corn" just doesn't roll off the tongue. It's a real food-oriented hobby, isn't it? Next they'll be telling us they taste like chicken. I'll take their word for that.

Don
Corn Snakes In Captivity

I picked up this female at the Richmond Show. It was sold to me as a crimson originally purchased from Serpenco. but it definitly looks more like the "hypo miami" pic from South Mountain as opposed to Don's cleaner looking crimson pic with the deep red saddles.

That's one of the best ones I've seen. Hang onto that one. Kudos.
Corn Snakes In Captivity

Wow, thanks!! That compliment, especially coming from you, just made my day.

...the complement was genuine. If you pull up 10 pix of crimsons other than the ones on Rich's site, you'll see what I mean.

Don
Corn Snakes In Captivity