Reptile & Amphibian Forums

As you can see, I am not a very good photographer, but these should get the job done. Let me know what you think.
Thanks again,
Brandon

np

Looks normal to me...maybe the tail is a little short, but I don't think there's problem with you wanting to breed her.

I didn't think so either, but just want some opinions... She is nice and fat and has pretty hefty fatty deposits behind her forearms, so I would think she'd be fine - just wondering if that small tail could be holding her back due to a lack of extra fat supply.

The tail length seems to determine health to an extent. When lines aren't outcrossed enough this is one of the signs. Any defects even ones that don't effect health shouldn't be passed on by breeding these geckos!!!
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Brian
www.windycitygeckos.com

What exactly makes it a defect if it does not have a negative effect on the health of the gecko? Let's pretend that we know this is a trait that can be genetically passed on, and that it has no bearing on the health of the gecko... (neither of these things, do we know for sure, by the way)- there is no difference between it and albinism, or hypomelanism, or anything other genetically passed on trait for that matter. To call it a defect is an error unless you're going to agree that the lack of melanin is also a defect... and if you can accept one, and not the other, then you're just playing favorites based on your own personal subjective definition of defect vs desired genetic mutation. By the way, I completely agree that a gecko born with a defect such as a missing eye, etc. should not be bred, but I cannot agree that a gecko missing an eye or a limb is on a parallel with this tail abnormality.

n/p

I would say that there is very little to no problem with this tail. Tails store fat and invariably some fat soluble vitamins but most captive bred geckos keep these tails quite fat year round even while gravid and after laying. The thickness is a sign of the health but they just don't use it the same way as they do in the wild. I would say that most hobbyist would find a stumpy tail undesirable but it's worth looking into. If you want to bred her i say go for it. If the young get to 12-20g and have some what shorter or noticeably shorter tails you may not want to continue breeding because regardless of it's lack of health effect it's probably not desirable ascetically. Thanks for posting this i was very curious, I've seen some similar to this before.

Thank you for the honest advice. I didn't think it was too much to be concerned about, but I wasn't sure, so I posted. I think I'm going to try and get her just a tad closer to 60 grams before I try again, and then give it one more shot. If she continues to lay only one egg per clutch, or I notice that the offspring are displaying short tails, I think I will not continue to breed her. (For the record, the one baby that I did keep, who is now around 30 grams, has a normal tail.) Good advice and thanks again.

Brandon

Just do me one favor. Please go to another specialty forum and ask the same question. I would recommend geckoforums.net

Your were already told by myself and Brian from Windy City Geckos that it was a bad idea. There are over 100,000 leopard gecko produced in the U.S. every year. You can pick up a normal female at most reptile shows for around $25. There is no logical reason to breed a leo that is anything less than ideal.

Right now I do not consider anything you have done to be wrong. The "breeder" who sold it to you was wrong in doing so. He should have culled it, but apparently he is more worried about money.

Please go to this other forum and see what they say. Many of them used to stop here, but for the most part they no longer do.
Link

You are right... when I think about the fact that I can obtain a female that I can expect to breed without any problems and without any 'defects' for 25 bucks, if I want, the decision really isn't that hard. I will not breed her. I don't necessarily agree with the idea that this tail must be some type of defect, but either way, a female with a normal tail is readily available.
Thanks for all your advice.

Brandon

honestly, what is special enough about her to warrant breeding in the first place? Even if she had a 'perfect' tail I wouldn't breed her. There are THOUSANDS of leos being bred every year by 'backyard breeders' and huge commercial breeders alike. There are enough leos to go around as it is...

In my opinion, breeding a gecko that has poor conformation is a poor choice on the part of the keeper. Sure, she may be healthy now, but what if there are less visible deformities than the short tail? What if she has something wrong with her internally? Why risk the life of one of your leos just for a few eggs?

Heck your right. Why even bother breeding unless i can get $100 for the offspring at very least if not $500. These animals are worthless as it is. You just look at them on some slate cause they're to dumb to know not to eat sand, and they would probably reproduce if you just rubbed 'em together it's not even difficult to make these things produce eggs. I think i'll go into chondros for the challenge of breeding and fat cash or venomous snakes where it's more of a collection of husbandry hobby. (sorry this whole post is a joke and is not meant to be taken offensively toward anyone)

I must admit, I feel like the notion of breeding simply for the enjoyment of the process, being able to watch the geckos hatch, and grow has been lost a bit. The fact that geckos are already being produced in mass quantities means nothing to me, as I am not in it for money, yet I do know that I can get rid of them, to good homes, if I must. I will take the advice not to breed this particular gecko, but realize that to someone like myself, the fact that millions of geckos are being produced already, or that the particular coloration of the gecko is not part of some premier up and coming trend is unimportant to me. I bred corn snakes for the past few years for the same reason, and when I say corn snakes, I mean the two pet snakes that I bought years ago in college. Not 10 or 20 or 50 snakes, just the two pets that I have had for years. Bred for the fun and enjoyment of doing so and watching them hatch and all of those exciting things.

Thanks all,

Brandon

I am the lead rep for a rescue organization. What I said had NOTHING to do with the monetary value of the animal. I have seen literally HUNDREDS of reptiles surrendered in the last year because of people who bred them to 'witness the miracle of birth' and I honestly believe that it is WRONG to breed your animals (which is hugely stressful to them in a PERFECT setting, not to mention what can go wrong!)

how is this any different than the people who let their dogs and cats breed, just so their kids can see the birth?

Breed her if you want to, it's you that will have to pay the consequences if something goes wrong. If I were you, I would enjoy her for the gecko that she is, not put her through the stress of laying eggs... if you want more geckos, find a rescue organisation in your area and adopt a one that needs a loving home.