Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently aquired a juvenile Timor. I've always been a fan of the larger species; Niles and salvators, however when I saw this tiny little timor in a local shop and watched it jump from limb to limb, I was hooked. I went through about 3 weeks of nail biting, adjusting this and that, etc, etc. Temp gradient, humidity level and so on all good according to the info I have. Everything I could think of, hides at different levels, whatever and still all it would do is scratch at the glass and otherwise try to escape. Then I read a post on this site. At first it sounded like some nebulous krap I used to read in the HariKrsna books from the airport. Iread it a couple times and Iunderstood. so I wached my lizard for a while and thought about where it came from and what it might want. since it spends a lot of time in the trees it must live in the woods. It also spends some time on the forest floor and what is on the forest floor? lots of dead leaves. BINGO! leaf litter. What the heck give it a try. 2 days and I havent seen him scratch and rub since. Thanks FR.

Actually they are very common in fence posts around paddocks. Find hollow ones and you have this monitor. Very very common like this.

But in natural habitats, they live in hollows in limbs. Again very very common this way. The limbs must be in the sun, or they do not use them.

So all hollow limbs to your cage and not only will it not try to escape, but you will rarely see it again.

Oh, first cut the limbs in half, they wire, rubber band them back together. That way you can get them out if you want. Cheers

Thanks for your input, its funny you should mention the hollow logs because I have 3 halves in the cage now. Since I put the leaf litter in, he hides all the time. I saw him out basking once. From what I understand, this is normal behavior. I feed him yesterday and left home, when I came home the food was gone. How often do you think I should handle this lizard? I don't want to stress him out. I handle my Niles all the time, and there somewhat docile. This leads me to the questions you asked me before about my Niles. You seemed to think its a good together. Here's the reason why I don't: I purchased a hatchling nile about 10 inches long, pretty skinny, really lively. About a month later I purchased another, the first Nile had already grown about an inch and was somewhat bulkier than the new one. I had intentions of housing them together so I rearranged the cage. Next post

I put them both in the cage together. They were fine for about 5 hours. If you read Faust book on Nile Monitors, he describes a certain behavior wherein a dominiat lizard attacks another, approaching with a sort of twitching of the head, followed by biting at the base of the tail and hind legs. I didn't let it go beyond this point. The words Faust uses in his book, like "crushing" bites to the head and "severe even fatal" injuries didn't sound to good to me. I've tried several times since with the same result. I've had them for about 8 months, the smaller one has since outgrown the larger one. 1 is over 3 feet, and the other is about 2 1/2 feet. The second lizard now displays the same behavior and I'd rather not put either lizard in jeopardy. The answer to your 2nd question "why Niles" is simple. In my opinion they are one of the most beautiful of the monitor species.I also love the temperment.

I have the same kind of reasons I keep what I keep. I was drawn to Lacies and the gouldi complex when I was 10 or so I believe. I saw that at San Deigo zoo and thought they were great. That was long before australian reptiles were protected. They were just like any other imported reptile. Of course I did not keep monitors seriously for another thirty years or so.

There are easy methods to obtain groups of monitors. But trying to force a square peg into a round hole is not one of them. If you have two animals that do not get along. Your task is to get some that DO get along.

If its more important to you to have those individuals, then build two cages.

Its very simple, if you want to breed them. Then its good if they get along. Its best if they bond and are a working pair.

Keeping and breeding working groups is fun, its joyful, its entertaining, its educational. Attempting to breed individuals that do not get along is not fun, its work, its a nightmare. Its educational, but most likely not in a positive way.

Of course I have lots of animals, so I have both extremes, so I can tell you, try to avoid animals that do not get along. Cheers

I'm in the process of building a 6'x9' enclosure in for the smaller one in the bedroom the larger one now inhabits. It will be on posts so as not to take space from the larger. I'm fine with keeping them apart and really need more experience before getting into any kind of breeding program but since I was setting up the room anyhow I figured I should make it "breeding friendly" so that when I am ready it will be easier to do so. By the way, as I said before I handle my Niles regularly with no adverse effects on them. I get the feeling that this Timor is different. What do you think?

About handling, I am one of those who think its not a good thing EVER. To understand that, what does it mean? It means, handling never benefits the monitor, it only benefits the human.

The vast majority of monitors spend their lives going about what monitors do and never and I mean never get or want to be handled by humans or any animal considered a predator. So surely its not something normal to their lives. Its abnormal.

It effects behavior, which means, its not a, one or the other thing, or good or bad thing. It effects behavior which also means the vast majority of humans, and that includes the smartest of the academics, do not understand the effects. In my opinion, it never ranges into the good side of good and bad. Many times it ends up causing the death of captive monitors. More a longterm stress effect.

A while ago, years, I read of all these tame monitors. So I did my normal casual investigation. I already knew how to take a monitors heartrate. Their heartrate is an indication of their real condition, much like yours is. So I took heartrates. Funny thing was, those tame lap sitting monitors ALL had elevated heartrates. Speeding actually. Which did not indicate being tame. But indeed indicated a fear responce.

What that means is, we may not understand what is tame and what is a natural predator responce. Again this has millions of degrees. But I suggest learning to take your monitors heartrate. This in help you understand what your monitor is feeling.

When holding your monitor, place your good hand(both of mine work well) under the monitors belly. Place your most sensitive finger about halfway between the front and back legs. A tiny bit closer to the front legs. Then lift that finger slighly. You will feel a little hard knot beating like crazy. Rarely not beating like crazy. hahahahahahaha

Next, I have seen tame monitors and one shining example was a beautiful nile. This person would drive around with it on the dashboard of his car. This person would leave it parked outside sitting on the dashboard. Hmmmmmmmmm. While they thought that was an expression of tameness. They could also set it anywhere and it would not leave, I again question that as being tame or normal.

In this case, its a little different. Monitors are a bit like a ferret or kinkochew-thing that MikeT has, they are wonderful cuddly things twice a day, as they wake up and as they go to sleep. The rest of the time, they are into everything they can get their nose into. Well, thats what healhty monitors do, when healthy and up to temps, they GOT to know what the heck everything is. They GOT to stick their noses into everything stickable. So what bothers me is, a healthy monitor WILL NOT SIT IN YOUR LAP, at least for anything more then a few seconds or minutes. It will want to see what the heck is all around. IT HAS TOO. Thats what monitors do.

ALso I am one of those people who think monitors are naturally tame. As far as I can tell, they get over their fear of things very very quickly. They also are not biters Naturally. Even wild ones get over biting you very quickly. OK, some don't. But most do.

In captivity, ones that bite, normally have good reason to bite. They normally have been major league offended and feel that is the best course of action. Yes, normally rightfully so.

My monitors are always tame. All of them. But they do not like to be picked up and under a monsters control. I have had wonderful folks over like Jefe and Rsg, and showed them this. I can go pick up a male(an example) I normally grab them by the base of the tail(as they scratch everything in sight) they flop and twist and do this swimming deal. They appear all crazy. But as soon as I place them in back in their cage, I mean as soon as their front feet hit the ground, they are either eating, looking for food or attempting to mate the female. Again, they were flopping like a tuna out of water. Also, I can hold them up high and they completely stop this flopping deal. They quickly take a high position and view the surroundings(a monitor monitoring) All monitors love this, they need this, gotta have it, they got to, got to, got to, whoops a little dock of the bay slipped in. A real need for monitors is to monitor. I know that sounds odd, but I get the feeling thats why they named monitors monitors, to monitor and all. This is a most important behavior.

So I have found that monitors learn to tolerate, they learn to use you(like a cat) but to be tame and want to be around you, I am not so sure of, well only if you have something they want. I do not see monitors run TO people when having a fear response, you know, a safe place. They always run to a safe place.

So handling is not a benefit, not at all. Of course if you have one that tolerates you and you have food, or its cold and you have warmth, or you have all sorts of smells on you, hmmmmmm this gets dangerous with large monitors. Or a female thats into heavy cycle and your a male(sad but true, monitors are not picky) or if your a female and the subject is a male monitor(iggies do this too) but again, those are things they want.

So No, neither your timor or niles want or need to be handled. Although both could learn and want to handle you. Yes, it would be very easy to train them to take food off your shoulder(done that many times) I may suggest wearing some sort of ear guard. Cheers

"whoops a little dock of the bay slipped in."

haha! Nice.

I was wrong, again, its Otis Redding and try a little tenderness. One of my all time favorite songs in the whole world. Cheers

"Also, I can hold them up high and they completely stop this flopping deal. They quickly take a high position and view the surroundings(a monitor monitoring) All monitors love this, they need this, gotta have it, they got to, got to, got to, whoops a little dock of the bay slipped in. A real need for monitors is to monitor."

I use to notice the samething back when I had green iguanas for about 10 years. They would do the fish flopping around like a tuna while trying to pick them up and if you held them up as highup as possible. They stopped flapping, then kicked back and looked around at the area. Sometimes trying to perch themselves on my fist (it's hard if they're big). I'm not sure if I checked their heart rates, but I may have. I'm always curious about heart rates with any living creature if I can find it (I'm odd I know).

argus monitors hate being held as much or more than any monitor. however with every individual i've ever had they stop flopping around when i begin to walk with them, no matter how high or low i hold them. cheers

So how do read the heartrate when you arent holding them; the normal heartrate?

I have lots of monitors that will jump up and sit on your hand. At least for a short time. Heck, I have monitors what will jump in your lap and scare the beans out of me and make my heart race. hahahahahahahahahahahaha that happened a couple months ago with a big nasty Male lacie.

I go in the cages and feed the female lacies. They come up and sit on me, and eat out of my hands. Then out of no where, BAM, this big male was sitting in my lap. If you have ever seen a hungry male lacie, its not something you want in your lap. Cheers