Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I remember last time I whas here that the breeder of the first leucistic hognose explained what happend to these snakes and why they were illegal.
But I cant find it.
Is there somebody who saved his tekst ? if so can you mail it to me at jesperbeverdam@hotmail.com

>>I remember last time I whas here that the breeder of the first leucistic hognose explained what happend to these snakes and why they were illegal.
>>But I cant find it.
>>Is there somebody who saved his tekst ? if so can you mail it to me at jesperbeverdam@hotmail.com

I think it was found in the wild in a state where it was illegal to collect native wild life. The person got caught in possession of the illegal animals and the animals confiscated.
-----
_____

PHWyvern

They were hatched from eggs that came from a w/c hognose. The hognose was apparently collected gravid and then released after the eggs were layed. According to the person who originally had all of the leucistics this should have made them all legal, but I have no clue about any of the laws over there.

And here is their original post.

" Greetings everyone.I would like to respond to several threads written about the leucistic w. hognose from Colorado that were brought to my attention from a very good friend in the business.The threads I'm responding to were written over the last couple of years.First of all I'd like you all to know that I am the original founder of the worlds first Leucistic W. Hognose.On June 28th, 2003 federal agents from the Division of Wildlife in Colorado raided my house in Firestone Colorado and seized 98 snakes.About 88 snakes were venomous and 10 snakes belonged to the ever so popular leucistic w. hognose group. Now the feds would love for everyone to believe that I collected a leucistic hognose in the state of Colorado illegally but the fact is that is far from the truth.About twenty years ago I started looking for a very special mutation of western hognose by collecting gravid females, hatching out their eggs and waiting for something very unusual to hatch out. Needless to say I spent many years hatching out hognose and releasing those hatchings ( and their mothers, for that matter).Fifteen years later I collected a very special female hognose snake.A few weeks after collecting her she laid five perfect eggs. About 45 days later ( thats right, hognose hatch in 45 days from Colorado), the eggs hatched and to my shocking surprise I had two leucistic hognose and three normal looking snakes.After several weeks of feeding and finally probing the hatchlings I learned that I had one leucistic male and four female siblings including the female leucistic.I was completely blown away!What I did was perfectly legal and of course I looked forward to offering the bloodline to the rest of the world since all the snakes were captive produced. By the way I released the mother before the eggs hatched so I'm sure there are many hets crawling around the plains of Eastern Colorado. Over the next 2-3 years I would produce about 10 leucistic and many hets from this fabulous mutation.I offered the first leucistics for sale at $10,000.00 ea. and had no trouble selling them, and sold hets for $5000.00ea.These kind of figures eventually got the attention of the feds and they decided, in their own devious ways, to put an end to it.Now everyone should know it is illegal to possess venomous snakes in the state of Colorado.When the feds finally raided my house they legally seized the venomous snakes but had no right taking the hognose group since the leucistic mutation does not and could not survive in the wild.Eastern Colorado has hundreds of birds of prey including red-tail hawks and kestrels by the hundreds.Western Hognose snakes peak activity is a couple hours after sunrise and a couple hours before sunset especially before dusk in the summer which also happens to be the hawks and kestrels peak activity. A solid white snake of any species would not survive long with those kinds of odds.Unfortunately when the feds raided my house they left me with nothing.I couldn't afford to hire a lawyer that knew anything about the case as far as the animals went and wasn't able to get MY hognose snakes back.I plead guilty to violating the Lacey Act which is basically interstate wildlife trafficking and spent 16 months in a federal prison.I'm now living in a state where it's legal to own venomous snakes and I'm now working with some of the more rarer crotalids, green tree pythons and womas.And for those of you wondering "are ther any more leucistic western hognose out there?" Well, all I can say to that is..... "Damn right there is!" Peace everyone, and happy herping, Brook "

I am a law enforcement officer in VA and I can say that I would be embarrassed to be associated with anything of what happened to you! Here you don't get that much time for the second offense on possessing crack cocaine!!

First of all, that was not me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the owners possesion of drugs should not have any bearing on the legality of the hognose snakes. The point of their post was that the leucistics hognose line should not be illegal, not that they should not have done any time.

I misread your post. Sorry about that. The first time I read over you post I thought you were taking a shot at them because, from what I heard, drugs were found during the raid.

I agree with you!! The leucistic, or the albino, or the whiteside etc. would have no chance at all in surviving in the wild. I am still trying to figure out how Federal Agents enforce state law on illegaly possessing herps from a particular state when it may not be illegal to posses the same species in another state that it was legally collected from. I have not read the Lacy Act but will do so now. From what I understand this is the only criminal situation where the Gov't doesn't have to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Instead it seems that they make you believe that you have to prove you are not guilty. I believe there have been instances where people owned kingsnakes that the Gov't said where direct descendants from native Georgia stock and they where charged under the Lacy Act as well. How the Gov't could prove this in a court of law is beyond me, instead the defendants where pressured into pleaing out to avoid jail time. What I would like to know is if anyone has actually fought this. I would love to see the Gov't make its case in proving certain animlas are descendants (in some cases several generations removed) from native stock of a particular state.

There was also an ak-47 assualt rifle along with the drugs seized which would make that an aggravated dope case explaining the time in federal prison! Very little of the legal trouble had to do with the hognoses I'm sure. Just my 2 cents. The whole thing is absoluteley brilliant,lol,find the snake of a lifetime and flush your life down the toilet. Kevin

Forgot to mention in the previous post that 9 times out of 10 people who own venomous snakes in a state where they are illegal to possess will have they're entire collection confiscated if caught too. Meth,assault rifles,and venomous snakes don't fly to well with police as I'm sure you know. Kevin

So if one would pop up in captivity... ...what would happen to the owner? Snake? Would location make a difference?
-----
Louie

So if one would pop up in captivity... ...what would happen to the owner? Snake? Would location make a difference?

You can keep 2 western hogs wildcaught or captive bred in your personal collection in Colorado if I remember correctly,which eliminates breeding them because the babies will violate the number of animals you have,but you could own a pair of leucistic hognoses as pets legally and when they grow up you can put them together just so they don't get bored,lol. Kevin

So you're saying if you're not in Colorado one could potentially own and breed them?
-----
Louie

So you're saying if you're not in Colorado one could potentially own and breed them?

If I had them and I wasn't in Colorado or other states where they're protected I would be breeding them like lab mice! Kevin

LOL!
-----
Louie

I agree that they definately deserved the jail time, and that their collection should have been taken. I really don't think they should have raided the homes of everyone that purchased a leucistic hognose, though. If they weren't illegally obtained (which they weren't according to the person who had them), then any that were not in his collection should have remained with their respective owners.

That does shed a whole new light on the subject!! Thanks for that piece of news. Meth assault rifle equals federal time as it should. I now have no sympathies for him.