Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So yesterday I ended up with a new pal - another Savannah Monitor. I'm more of a snake person than a monitor person, but a reptile in need of any sort usually finds its way home with me.

But the circumstances surrounding this little guy being so thin have me annoyed at some pet store folks for something entirely new. Heck, I've had a lot of complaints about different stores, but for some reason this problem just never occurred to me.

They are feeding live - not my personal preference, but I know full well some animals won't eat any other way, like my Mandarins - but moreover they are feeding HUGE live prey. Way too large for these guys to manage.

I was standing there slightly stunned for long enough to watch a full grown fat rat bite the face of another baby monitor.

The guy I took home has some scarring to his face and is thin. The pet shop people said that he ate crickets ok, but wouldn't touch mice or rats.

Funny, now that he's here and settled he took a few sniffs of a f/t large pinkie and scarfed it down. Apparently he's less mouse shy when he's not being attacked. [/sarcasm]

I guess I'm just annoyed. Size of prey offered to herps isn't exactly something that can be easily regulated. I just wonder how many herps have suffered because of this type of thing. I'd really never considered that this could be a problem before.

But the good news in all this is that the guy (or gal) is doing well. I just need to come up with a name.

Your Sav is only one of 250,000 or so, imported yearly. There is over a 99% fatality rate in the first year.

They are imported at a price of around $5.00. Which is about what a weekly feeding should be. Cheers/not really

Actually I live nearby Miami so I'm extremely familiar with the import situation where a variety of different species are concerned.

I just hadn't thought much on the idea that some places were killing animals by feeding them prey items that are too large. *That* is the part of this surprised me.

They are killing them in ways you cannot imagine. Some don't feed them anything. So they eat eachother. Heck, most die of thirst. Its not a fun thing to think about.

I don't doubt it. And I'll probably be stunned every time that I see a new one. I've walked through different import facilities... places where there are so many ball pythons in an aquarium that the ones on the bottom are dead. The state of the import trade can be horrifying.

Most would probably be surprised to see that state of some of the breeders facilities out there. Breeders tend to do a much better job than importers simply because their animals have to be kept halfway decent in order to reproduce, but I've seen some of the facilities of a local breeder around here. It was pretty shocking.

i know your heart is in the right place, but understand this happens 100,000 times a year, literally. there is no rescue about it, you are simply buying into, and funding, an ugly aspect of the reptile business.

please take a minute and check out this FAQ i wrote years ago. your situation is nothing new, but sucks nonetheless.
Why shouldn't I rescue the scrawny monitor from my local pet store? FAQ

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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Let me be the first to say GOOD JOB!!!! Its great that you can help this animal.

Main Entry: res·cue
Pronunciation: 'res-("kyü
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): res·cued; res·cu·ing
Etymology: Middle English rescouen, rescuen, from Anglo-French rescure, from re- escure to shake off, from Latin excutere, from ex- quatere to shake
: to free from confinement, danger, or evil : SAVE, DELIVER: as a : to take (as a prisoner) forcibly from custody b : to recover (as a prize) by force c : to deliver (as a place under siege) by armed force
- res·cu·able /-&-b&l/ adjective
- rescue noun
- res·cu·er noun
synonyms RESCUE, DELIVER, REDEEM, RANSOM, RECLAIM, SAVE mean to set free from confinement or danger. RESCUE implies freeing from imminent danger by prompt or vigorous action . DELIVER implies release usually of a person from confinement, temptation, slavery, or suffering . REDEEM implies releasing from bondage or penalties by giving what is demanded or necessary . RANSOM specifically applies to buying out of captivity . RECLAIM suggests a bringing back to a former state or condition of someone or something abandoned or debased . SAVE may replace any of the foregoing terms; it may further imply a preserving or maintaining for usefulness or continued existence .

Funny... Doesn't say anything about preserving a species of over-imported animals.

because there's a difference between rescuing an animal and throwing money at the people that put the animal in that position in the first place. When you buy an animal from a store, regardless of how the animal was kept, that money is going to be spent on more replacements for the animal. If it sells, they'll throw more out there. All that has been done here is insurance that that store will definately have more monitors kept in the same conditions. Besides, there is a lot more to worry about than feeding large prey items.

My first lizard I bought in such a fashion because I thought I was rescuing him. Guess what...now there's just more horrible looking reptiles at the same store to take his place. I didn't stop any suffering. There's probably more suffering animals at that shop BECAUSE I 'rescued' my reptile. In an attempt to save one reptile, I ended up handing over enough money to ensure that there would be dozens more to take its place in another couple of weeks.

The reptile trade is still pretty horrifying. It's not such a well-run operation that people seem to think it is.

Yes, it technically is a rescue, but the monitor still has all the parasites, truama, and who knows what else. Simply put, it would have died either way. I know from experience. Ive bought into the imported savannah crap before. You know, the classic 10 year old begging his parents to buy him a savannah because its gets big. Well, the poor little guy died 2 weeks later. I wonder why? Yes that was sarcasm. FR and Robyn are totally right. Im sure youve read his excellent FAQ. Heck, Ive read all of them! TONS of good info. Anyway, if you havent read it, do so! Ive been to numerous crappy reptile show booths full of half-dead imports. They even had a sick albino retic. What up with that? The only CB animal at the booth was in its death throes. All of this is really saddening. Sorry if I seem like Im rambling.

Ryan

Look you obviously missed the point. By 'saving' this one animal the thread originator was inadvertently propogating the behavior that resulted in the sav being mistreated.

It's simple capitalism. The good news is that capitalism works both ways...as so well put in that PE link if everyone stopped buying the poor things there wouldnt be any more poor things to buy. It's a shame people are not willing to spend $150 on a sav and therefore made captive breeding a viable option? Sav's are great 'pet' monitors...hearty, relatively calm, do not get that big, look great...too bad people are not currently willing to invest in their proper introduction into the pet trade.

Tom

Its a term used in pastense. As in, you rescued. to rescue is to save, etc. Or its stated, an attempted rescue.

The problem here is, in most cases, the animals never gets rescued. It merely passes to other hands before its premature demise.

In most cases the rescuer does not have the ability to actually rescue, as noticed by the naive questions asked here by those doing the rescue. These from the body of those doing the rescuing.

Even the good rescuers temporarily offer decent support, then pass those animals on to those who don't offer such support.

So I would think its very evident that there is nearly no actual rescuing being done.

So yes, it often bothers those longtime monitor keepers. We understand the reality.

Nothing against this particular person. Its merely the way it is and this gives ME the additude I have. Cheers