Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what are the visible characteristics...and the probable cause...does any one really know any thing about this ????

Some dwarf specimens harbor a sharp taper from the cloaca to the tip of the tail, but not always, and some harboring this trait grow to normal size as well.
There are multiple reasons for dwarfism and pinning down the exact cause for an individual specimen is quite difficult. However, the two known primary reasons are metabolism and genetic.
I have only witnessed and heard of dwarfism among D. couperi and D. m erebennus and I have one of each within my collection, both acquired as adults from individuals to prevent the animals from being passed from home to home, as was the case of the female D. m erebennus I acquired and to prevent further any chance of the animals reproducing, though I believe a gravid dwarf female would expire during oviposition. Personally, I believe inbreeding has something to do with dwarfism, as it tends to occur only among two species for which wild caught stock has been unavailable for quite some time, though many who have specimens which have produced dwarf offspring will claim environmental conditions during the incubation period were to blame. However, I find it odd that in tracking down the origins of dwarf captive produced specimens; one will find such have originated from a single source, which leads me to believe genetics are indeed at play.
In short, there is generally no way to tell whether a neonate or juvenile specimen is a dwarf, as they tend to develop normally, up until the second - third year of growth...

Best regards,

Jeff
-----
Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

Over the years I have seen several examples of "Dwarf" D.c. couperi. The one that comes to mind first is one that I saw back in Florida in 2004.It was about 3 1/2 ft in length, very girthy, and seemed to possess and was flattened dorsally. The second was a D.c. couperi that I saw on the vendors table at a local So.Cal Reptile Show. It was only on the table for a short period of time and, either because of the low price tag, or because someone just "had to have one" it sold quickly. THAT snake looked compressed, and seemed to have NO middle section, it appeared as it its head was attached to its tail region. And its ventral scale pattern was distorted and strange, not balanced at all.

I believe that the production of "dwarf specimens of D.c. couperi occurs both as a spontaneous mutation, and as a DIRECT result of inbreeding certain populations of this snake. There are times when dwarfs come up for sale, and if the seller is ethical, he DEMANDs that this particular snake not be used for breeding stock.

Of course, once the snake leaves the sellers hands, they have little no NO control over what the bdoes with it. Including breeding it.And thats the bad news. I personally think, after breeding easterns for quite a number of years, that I should have frozen off ANY snakes that exhibited major genetic defects. Period. I have frozen some, but a few I did not, and I regret that. Were it to happen nowadays, they would go directly into the freezer.

Sincerely,

F. Albury

My friend, Bob Henderson, Curator of Herpetology (and actually, Curator of all Vertebrates since they just let everyone go!) at the Milwaukee Public Museum who is well known for his work with grenada tree boas, gave me one of the most bizarre eastern indigos I have ever seen. This snake is approximately 28" (max) and over 4 years of age (female)! I wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it. This snake never missed a meal and was fed an optimal diet at proper intervals. This snake has excellent proportions with no tail tapering or any other "dwarfism" characters. The head appears just slightly larger in proportion to its body compared to a normal sized indigo of the same age. The body proportions all appear to be perfectly normal yet this snake is an absolute runt. Thankfully, she'll stay with me and never be bred but she is definitely one for the books. If someone wants to post a picture, I'd be happy to send you a pic.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>Over the years I have seen several examples of "Dwarf" D.c. couperi. The one that comes to mind first is one that I saw back in Florida in 2004.It was about 3 1/2 ft in length, very girthy, and seemed to possess and was flattened dorsally. The second was a D.c. couperi that I saw on the vendors table at a local So.Cal Reptile Show. It was only on the table for a short period of time and, either because of the low price tag, or because someone just "had to have one" it sold quickly. THAT snake looked compressed, and seemed to have NO middle section, it appeared as it its head was attached to its tail region. And its ventral scale pattern was distorted and strange, not balanced at all.
>>
>> I believe that the production of "dwarf specimens of D.c. couperi occurs both as a spontaneous mutation, and as a DIRECT result of inbreeding certain populations of this snake. There are times when dwarfs come up for sale, and if the seller is ethical, he DEMANDs that this particular snake not be used for breeding stock.
>>
>>Of course, once the snake leaves the sellers hands, they have little no NO control over what the bdoes with it. Including breeding it.And thats the bad news. I personally think, after breeding easterns for quite a number of years, that I should have frozen off ANY snakes that exhibited major genetic defects. Period. I have frozen some, but a few I did not, and I regret that. Were it to happen nowadays, they would go directly into the freezer.
>>
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>
>>F. Albury
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Why did they let everyone go?

I don't get it? Is that the picture of a Dwarf Indigo? Without a size comparison with something to show scale and a full body shot. It looks like a pretty snake and for all I can tell from the picture it might as well be a normal sized specimen. Do you have any other photo's that might show some size comparison. Thanks Jack

That is a normal sized indigo, I accidentally posted the pic.

Sorry for the confusion.

what happens after the 3rd year....what traits will/might appear....is this gene recessive????........codominate.....multiple alleles.....you wrote normal phenotypes can carry it??.....my male just seems to be on the small size, but no tapered tail no fat trunk....everything is in proportion.....will he have a growth spurt???......i've never raised an indigo up before....i feed 1 small rat /week......coments????

I saw one years ago at a park/museum I think in North Florida.
It was as fat as a normal but only about 4ft long. Extremely thick for its length body, proportioned like a southern hognose.
I asked the curator what happened to the snake and he said it was donated by someone and was about 10 years old at the time.
He was told it was hatched like that.