Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just bought a 2’ savannah monitor for $40 from a local pet shop. I know the owner well from dealing with him for several years and he’s an honest person. He didn’t know if the savannah is CB or WC. I’ve read that most are WC but didn’t know if there’s a chance of it being CB or not. It’s so docile, or, tolerant, it’s hard to imagine it being recently caught in the wild. The pet shop owner said he ordered a baby and they sent him this 2-footer. I think he said it came from TX.

It had two small ticks on its belly, near its cloaca, and one small tick in it’s left ear. The best I can recall, the ticks were black & I’m thinking they had a dot or two that was a different color, but I can’t remember for sure.

The savannah also had a little bit of reddish-brown dirt on it, mostly on its back. I realize this is most likely insignificant because it could have been from soil in the cage it came from instead of a natural wildlife enviro.

This is my first savannah. Even though I know its needs and suggested care, I don’t know much about their behavior characteristics. It appears to be pretty docile, no attempts to bite or any aggressive display. One thing I’m unsure of is the way it reacts to being rubbed on either side of its neck, behind the ears.

As you can see in the pics below, when rubbed on either side of the neck, it acts as if it tickles it. It kinda draws up like a dog does when its scratched on its side. I’m wondering if there’s a possibility that a tick could be in the ear canals and it actually hurts the savannah when rubbed on the side of the neck. I don’t think so, but I want to get some input from other savannah owners.

Also, is it possible for it to be a WC and be so docile, or, tolerant? Its been like a puppy dog, so far. I just got it Saturday afternoon, and the pet shop only had it one day before I bought it from them.

Sorry for this being so long but I tried to be as thorough as I could.

Thanks for any & all input/advice!

Take care!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

that animal is SO wild caught it still SMELLS like Afrika. from here.

external parasites aren't going to be your only concern, get that animal to a vet for a checkup and definitely a fecal for internal parasites.

a half dead monitor often has the personality of a "tame" monitor. get the animal set up properly with great temps and husbandry, then you can assess temperament.

get the Savannah book by Ravi and Bennett. it is a must have. it is available at our site, or here on the classifieds. we also have care info in our FAQ and caresheet section.

best of luck.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

if the pet store owner "didn't know" if that animal was cb or wild caught, that doesn't make him honest. it makes him either ignorant or a liar. neither one is very admirable for a reptile dealer/pet shop owner.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

"external parasites aren't going to be your only concern, get that animal to a vet for a checkup and definitely a fecal for internal parasites."

I had already planned on going to my vet's the first thing in the morning.

"a half dead monitor often has the personality of a "tame" monitor. get the animal set up properly with great temps and husbandry, then you can assess temperament."

Pardon the pun, but, your "dead" right about a sick animal acting differently. That's one of the reasons I was asking about their behavior. I once rescued a baby gator that was skin & bones and the person that had it said it was tame. Well, at the time, it was. I offered it a variety of prey items for a few days and it wouldn't eat.

I called the person I got it from & asked how long its been since it ate and they said at least a month. I decided it was time to force-feed it a rat pup. Needless to say, the next day it wasn't as "tame". I got her back on her feet & back into the wild. She'd a never made it had I not've intervened. She never would've made it if she was released in the condition she was in.

I saw you mention that book and the care sheet in another thread here at kingsnake.com and I've already added it to my "favorites" list so I can check it out later today, when I have more time.

As for the pet shop owner; without a doubt, I don't think he was lying. I will have to admit, though, my first thought was, "How could he not know if its CB or WC?" Either an employee placed the order or he just didn't pay attention to the details on it. I think an employee placed the order because he can tell you whether most of the other few reptiles he sells are CB or WC.

Breaking News!!!
My wife just walked in the room with the savannah monitor. She got it out for my son to hold and came in here to tell me they couldn't get it to calm down. Said it was trying like crazy to get out of her hands and hissin' pretty loud (something it hasn't done before).

When I brought it home I set up its cage to run what I think is a little on the high side. Basking spot - 132, hot end - 96, cool end - 83, humidity - 50% - 60%.

Hopefully it's in decent health, as it appears to be, but still will get checked out. Hopefully its behavior had to do more with new enviro and being timid than health.

Thanks, Robyn!

Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

sounds like it is coming around quickly. good to hear about the planned fecal, that will establish a base of health.

as for not knowing cb/wc, it doesn't matter who ordered the animal. i didn't order it, but i know : ) and so should the shop owner. if he doesn't, that is crazy ignorant, and is reflective of other (lack of) knowledge concerns. ya know?

best of luck. and you will love that book, it is really well done.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I haven't seen if anyone else answered this but, every Savannah I've EVER encountered has behaved that was when rubbed/tickled/scratched/tapped in that area. The same applies with black throats or so I've been told.

Seperate you from your brain. Then let you brain think from the monitors point of view. This is silly what it takes silly to explain silly.

Each monitor has its own personality(minor) plus millions of instinctive behaviors honed over thousands of years(most everyone forgets this) This sharply honed behaviors have to do with "Staying alive" yes, in a John Travolta kind of way and just plain staying alive.

Monitors are also keenly award of size. Like lots of animals. They puff up, flatten out, lift their bodies high in the air. They do this to detour a threat, or present themselves as a threat, in most cases, to another monitor, But also small predators. What do they do when a large predator makes advances to them? Hmmmmmmmmm lets say something the the size of a twenty story building? They may give a small effort to bluff, but after that, what can they do. They cannot run. Not in most captive conditions(they are too cold to run effectively) Yes, if you come across a larger wild monitor thats on the cool side, it will not run either. So what can it do??? Well, "nothing" comes quickly to mind. It cannot do anything but lay there.

Monitors also have a memory, that is, they remember this has been done before. The first few times the monitor most likely tried to get away, but YOU physically stopped it. SO IT REMEMBERS, it cannot get away, so it does nothing. Some people say they play dead, i am not sure about that either, as they would have to recognize what dead is to play dead, but thats another subject. They just lay there and hope they survive. Plain and simple.

I know, I know, your such a sweet caring human, but the monitor only knows the human part. And humans are not sweet or caring. I know I know, you want yourself to believe this because you would be shown in poor lite if you did not. To bad, your in poor lite.

To prove this, you can go do the same thing to a fence lizard, a wild monitor, A TOAD. And don't go telling me you can tame them in minutes.

With larger wild monitors, as soon as you subdue them, and get their feet off the ground, they often play this game. You can put them on the ground and often they will not move until you leave. Or they may make a small attempt at escaping, but you will grab them and next time they will "play dead" not a good term, but kinda good, as the captive monitors that keep having this happen to them seem to die very quickly.

So in your mind you think a monitor likes this, but in the monitors mind, its giving itself its last rights.

I have seen and heard of plenty of "tame" monitors, but I have yet to see one run up and rub all over a persons legs, like a cat. Oh, unless it had mites. Cheers

I can't get in to see the vet until next week. I'm also gonna take my nile to have it checked out, even though it appears to be fine.

The savannah ate a F/T small rat the other night and I didn't see any worms or any reason for concern, with the naked eye. I know that doesn't mean there's not any, though.

I knew that savs had a milder temperament than niles but now I think I was still subconciously comparing it to my nile, as far as temperament goes. I think a freshly W/C nile that size would've turned me every which way but loose.

FR, what you said about them "not moving until you leave" is right, my nile does this when I have to handle it to clean it's cage. When I first got my nile I tried the "man-handle" approach but quickly saw it wasn't working. It was during that short time frame that when I went to put it back into its cage I would have to practically dump it out of my hand because it would just lay there, with it's front legs folded underneath it and all.

Since I stopped approaching it, it has stopped being flighty. Still hasn't approached me, yet, though, but maybe in time. Maybe, maybe not. Just about everyday I can see what you talk a lot about, about how monitors are totally different creatures from just about any other animal. I spend a lot of time observing and analyzing its behavior and its paying off. Patience is definitely a virtue, with my nile, at least.

Have a good one!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Think about this. Most think they will do well or Tame a monitor because they think of themselves in a certain way. Like they think they are smart(up to academics) or nice, or caring, or cute or whatever. The problem is being nice "is" providing something, someone or a animal needs. Whethers is your good looks, your ability to share, your ability to make others feel good. Nice is fullfilling a need.

With monitors, they do not care or even think about most of that. Frankly they do not how nice you are, in human terms. They care how nice you are in monitor terms. You have to provide something they like. Whethers its food, safty/security, warmth, or mental stimulation. They then will form a bond and start to "like" you.

I indeed believe monitors "like" certain people. They also trust certain people.

Your job is to change you to be that type of person, not change the monitor to FIT you.

Also this advice is a little wrong, but I think overall its best, do not fix something that is not broken. If your monitor is doing good and progressing, do not worry about taking it to a vet. Indeed take monitors that are in need.

Of course there are rare things that could be fixed, but there are far more common things that need fixing. And in most cases parasites are NOT one of them.

Remember parasites are a normal part of varanids lives. Its only a problem when the monitor is severely compromised. If they are healthy, they rid themselves of parasites in short order. Cheers

I agree parasites are not the problem, eventually keepers will regard them the same way we now see UV bulbs (old wife’s tails)

To me it’s clear, no wormer can cure a disease caused by poor husbandry.

"...smart(up to academics) or nice, or caring, or cute or whatever. ....your good looks, your ability to share, your ability to make others feel good."

Dang, FR, you described me perfectly! And they say you're just an ole' cuss. But I knew better. LOL!!!

Seriously, though,.....

"They then will form a bond and start to "like" you."

The key word here is "They," THEY will form the bond. Takes a lot of self control on my part but like I said earlier, I'm starting to see some positive results.

Do you have to be as patient with savannahs, too?

I understand what you said about seeing a vet. I'll keep both monitors on paper substrate for a little bit so I can tell for sure what's going on. I hate it for my Nile, though, I can tell its unhappy about my switchin' aspen for paper.

Thanks!

Take care!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Savs are no different then any other monitor species. In fact their are worse. Of course they have a million times higher percentage of dying.

Thats sorta leading, as there are far more savs imported. But they are worse, because they internalize stress instead of biting or defending themselves.

If you use common sense, why would any monitor species react calmly to a predator. You are a predator. Savs are no different then any other monitor in this area.

Monitors react directly based on their ability to escape. Savs are heavy bodied and not the runners that some other species are. Coupled with they are almost always not hot enough to run, so they internalize the stress. No wonder so many die of organ failure. Cheers

"If you use common sense,..."
Ahh, there's a precious, rare, commodity, these days.

Didn't take me long at all to see the behavior difference between the sav and nile. The sav is deifinitely very passive while the monitor, in human terms, could be considered aggressive, but like you said, its "defensive." What I didn't think of is the stress factor that usually goes hand-in-hand with passive behavior (I'm relating it to human terms, human behavior, but I fully understand what you mean about the difference between human & monitor terms).

I started a new thread titled: "Stress and Organ Failure" because I'd like to learn more about it but felt it would be better suited for its own thread instead of getting lost in this one. Would you care to shed some light on it?

Here's the link: forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1222437,1222437

Thanks!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

In the late seventies, I was doing lots of work with snakes. I was doing this same kind of behavioral work with colubrids.

I was working at Woodlawn Park Zoo in Seattle. The great reptile keeper Ernie Wagner was the reptile curator. He had been over and seem my work.

One day I was walking across the zoo and this fella yelled at me. Hi Frank, Great work with those kingsnakes. Then yelled, reptilian behavior is the base for mammalian behavior, and mammalian behavior is the base for human behavior. I gave him a funny look, as I did not know him.

It turned out to be the Zoo Vet.

But his thoughts were correct, animal behavior has a base(simple with reptiles) and can get more complicated(mammals) and get real complicated and screwed up(humans) He was one of the few that understood reptiles are a great learning tool for behavior. They have the same stuff, only on a very simple model.

Why our varanid academics have avoided this with all they are worth, only reflects on them. You see, behavior is the key to varanids, both in captivity and in nature. There is no arguement for that. Yes there is, just really bad ones. Cheers

I didn't know that you're well experienced with snakes, too. Snakes are what I'm more experienced in (30-plus yrs. as a "casual" keeper). Am I wrong in thinking that snakes are more "simple" than varanids? To me, snakes seem to be so much easier to accomodate, to relieve stress in.

I think what you said, "...animal behavior has a base(simple with reptiles) and can get more complicated(mammals) and get real complicated and screwed up(humans)" confirms my thought that the level of stress can be directly linked to the level of intelligence. I'm sure their are exceptions to the rule, but the principle remains the same. Why is depression more common today than say, 100 yrs. ago? Increase of knowledge & failure to adhere to the golden rule "K.I.S.S." (keep it simple, stupid).

Very interesting and worthwhile story, FR. Thanks for telling it.

Have a good one!
Mike
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.