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My deremensis has died...more inside...

eric adrignola May 20, 2003 09:00 PM

A simple moutgh infection had progressed to death, and I belive it is partially my fault. I failed to complete the baytril treatments, and he died. HOWEVER, I did not realize until I began the second treatments, after the surgury to remove the abcess, that the initial dosage of baytril was much too high, .13 cc's, where as the proper dosage was only .05 cc. I wonder if this is what caused him to linger on for over a week and a half despite showing NO signs of infection, and having normal white blood cell counts.
I tis sad, as I raised him from a baby, and he was my first chameleon since leaving the hobby for several years. I guess, in some wayys, it was a bit of a wake up call. I never had time to take care of them while workoing and going to school full time, and coulfd not devote as much as I wanted. I graduated saturday, he died monday morning in my hnds--ironic, huh?
What should have been one of the greatest days of my life was marred by this sad event( and the fact that DONAHUE disgraced himself and insulted my entire graduating class and all in attendance by making what was "supposed" to be a moving, influential commencment speech turn into am incoherent, nonsensical, cry for attention).

On a positive note, my female MAY have his sperm, and if not eggs, could still produce some babies of his line.
This will not be the end...I will not give up on the species. I don't know what I should do. I want to bury the guy, but I also want to look and see if it was kidney damage, respiratory, or other...I froze him so I could dissect if I chose.....

Eric a

Replies (11)

dank7oo May 20, 2003 09:06 PM

how old was she and how did she get the infection in the first place?
-----
Jason, Ichiro, Mika, & Toki
razior_@hotmail.com

icequeen May 20, 2003 10:20 PM

It's very very difficult! I'm watching Zoe struggle as well...AGAIN. Sadly, I think this fight will be the last. I can't keep doing this with him. It is emotionally, and financially draining....and it's the emotional part that's KILLING me!
My heart is with you!

(Donahue?....as in Phil Donahue?)

anson May 20, 2003 10:49 PM

Especially since he had been doing so well before. I don't know when he got sick again nor the details of the illness because I was away for over a week. My heart goes out to both of you.
Sincerely, Sonia

icequeen May 20, 2003 11:13 PM

ohhhhh...you lost a cham too???? I haven't been on the forum much recently either(a close family friend passed away...one of those friends that the kids call "aunt" but they really aren't related....)
I didn't see that you had also lost a pet.
I'm sorry to hear that! I didn't mean to "ignore" that...I apologize.
Thank you for your kind thoughts about Zoe!

-----
Kim

anson May 20, 2003 11:31 PM

Yes I lost her last Friday and I posted her picture on the 19th under the heading In loving memory of Gala. No need to apologize. I know you are always supportive of others on the forum and I know how much you have gone through and how you care for Zoe.
Sonia

anson May 20, 2003 10:40 PM

I just lost my female panther Gala last Friday and I can relate.
Most people don't realize how heartbreaking it is and how attached we can get to them.

Bill_Strand May 20, 2003 11:20 PM

Eric,
Necropsy him. If you haven't done this before it will be an incredibly educational experience. Learning what the inside of a chameleon looks like will help you understand them. I am not sure what it will be like after a thaw though!
It is hard when we lose the fight to keep our guys alive during a sickness. Sorry for the loss.
Bill

eric adrignola May 21, 2003 07:57 AM

I just didn't want him in the refridgerator for a few weeks, as I have very little free time(we're going away for memorial day, and I'm working two jobs-full time and a bit extra at night fixing lasers for my dad's buisness.

I need several hours to do this, set up the microscope, get out my dissection kit, etc. I want to take samples of the epithelial cells, and maybe make some slides, if I can cut it thin enough. I just recieved a zoology degree, so, as you could understand, I have done my share of dissections.
I was even thinking about preserving the skull, it looks like it is sturdy enough that it will not disintegrate. Heck, I had to preserve a tiny shrew skull in my mammology class, and that was about a centimeter long. I may even try to clean the skeleton. I may only be able to preserve the major bones, but I think it would be an interesting mount. My friend Pete in PA once had a Parsonii skeleton he mounted-It took him forever to mount the bones. He boiled it, then used beetles. He did say he never smelt anything worse than a boiling chameleons...maybe I'll just do the skull.

Carlton May 21, 2003 03:19 PM

I am very sorry to hear this! Let's hope he will live on in future babies. Definitely get some lab work done in case there's any info to pass on. Stomatitis is a bear to treat...we can all use any info you get.

Congrats on your graduation too.

eric adrignola May 21, 2003 03:33 PM

Just looking at him on the outside, and there is absolutly NO sign of infection. The lanced abcess was perfectly healed. No discoloration, nothing. NO swelling, nothing. Whatever killed him was internal. Let's retrace what happened to him.....
Developed swollen lips. Had slight chunky crud inside of lips, treated with silver sulfaidide, and baytril, healed fine, started eating in no time.

Hemipenis prolapsed during middle of baytril teatments. Reinserted with a lot of stress on both of us. No problems with the manhood after that.

Stopped baytril treatments 5 days early, I went away, someone was suppposed to treat him, but never showed up...

Stopped eating for a few days, stopped activly drinking.
A large abcess was noticed in his mouth, on his gumline, on the inside of his jaw.

It was lanced, and more baytril prescribed, as well as flushings and swabbing with antiseptics.

He never recovered well, staying dark, and not moving around.
After a week and a half of slowly getting weaker, he died Monday morning. All the while, his eyes stayed alert, ad except from his color and lack of movement, he looked perfectly healthy.

Upon looking back some...
The 2nd round of baytril was at 0.05 cc. this was found to be the proper dose of a 100gram animal, as he was.

The FIRST round was 0.13 cc-nearly three times more than the recommended dose. I have not yet consulted my vet, but I believe that this may be the problem, as no bacteria seem to be present-In his blood, or in the abcess for that matter!(I had blood and culture work done by them).

I will do a necroscopy, but I believe I will find damaged kidneys, and no evidence of any bacterial infection.
Eric A

chimbakka May 21, 2003 06:09 PM

I think you are right... damaged kidneys. The overdose of batryl could have done a lot of damage. Also, did he lose a lot of weight quickley when he stopped eating? I think that can push kidneys that are already damaged over the edge. I would have a good chat with your vet after. If the batril is what did it than maybe you can keep it from hurting someone else's cham.
I'm sorry for your loss. It is amazing how attached we get to the darling little creatures, isn't it? They are magical somehow...

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