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Leucistic snake questions, please . . .

slithering_serpents Jan 02, 2007 08:55 PM

I understand what makes them and what they look like but I have more questions.
I read about the eyes being formed in the fetus(?) by the neural crest and that's why the blue or black eyes still have pigment, because the iris tissue has a different unaffected origin. That doesn't explain why always blue or black eyes though. I'd like to know why only blue or black? This might be less of a point in snakes but still a curiosity to me. I'd also like to know more about leucistisim in other species.

Caden
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com

Replies (7)

Paul Hollander Jan 03, 2007 05:00 PM

I know what a leucistic looks like, but I don't know much else.

As far as I know, the eyes are blue or black because the only pigment in the retina is black. Though a certain amount of red is visible from blood.

Seems to me that the recessive white pigeon could be called leucistic. Maybe the dominant white cat, too.

Paul Hollander
a recessive white pigeon

slithering_serpents Jan 03, 2007 09:06 PM

Thanks for your response Paul. The retina in on the back inside of the eye, it's the iris that sometimes has colors like brown green blue etc. The pupil is always black because essentially it's just an aperture or hole. With leucistics there is no brown green etc, just blue and black. Lack of pigment sometimes translates into blue too not just red in irises, like in blue eyed albinos. Blue is sometimes surrounded by a circle of red and the pupil itself can appear red if the light is just right.

The dominant white (blue eyed) cat is an interesting case isn't it? Imagine leucisticism as a dominant trait! : ) I thought for a while these cats were leucistic too, then I read they are dominant whites, so it is just maybe hard for me now to wrap my brain around them being dominant leucistic. : )

Likewise when I first saw the 'albino' or white dobermans with blue eyes, I thought there a case of leucistics alright, then I found out they do have a soft sort of light ceamy pigment like siberian huskies do in their white parts, that is almost never evident except when they are sitting in fresh white snow. So I guess they must be blue eyed albinos. Thanks for discussing this with me, I find albinism and leucisticism very interesting.

Caden

>>I know what a leucistic looks like, but I don't know much else.
>>
>>As far as I know, the eyes are blue or black because the only pigment in the retina is black. Though a certain amount of red is visible from blood.
>>
>>Seems to me that the recessive white pigeon could be called leucistic. Maybe the dominant white cat, too.
>>
>>Paul Hollander
>>a recessive white pigeon
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com

boaphile Jan 04, 2007 08:40 AM

I love Leucistic Boas too!

How much you ask? Good question...

This much!

www.leucistic.com

The several morphs in Ball Pythons that make an all white snake are very interesting and are something that certainly could happen in Boa Constrictors. The big difference between Balls and Boas is all normal Balls look nearly identical in comparison to Boas that are incredibly variable. This makes picking out and finding those new morphs, that may be incomplete dominant like some of the Ball morphs, much more difficult if not impossible. I have one male Boa that is a very weird color. Kind of reminds me of the Mohave Ball more than anything that I joke with peopleabout, is het for Leucistic. I am only half joking, hoping that when and if I breed him that he produces a litter of babies that contain about half that have that same weird look that he has. It could happen...

By the way...

www.leucisticboa.com

Got that one too.
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slithering_serpents Jan 04, 2007 07:17 PM

That's a pretty cool domain name you got there! : ) Ha ha ha I guess you're enthralled with them too! : ) I have spent a lot of time pondering ball pythons and how different combinations make a leucistic. In fact this is perhaps the most interesting part, when you consider that leucisicm is defined by no chromatophores, how the heck that happens via those combinations is mysterious. : )

Caden
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com

Paul Hollander Jan 04, 2007 12:55 PM

>I thought for a while these cats were leucistic too, then I read they are dominant whites, so it is just maybe hard for me now to wrap my brain around them being dominant leucistic. : )

I never heard of anything called "leucistic" until Bechtel came up with the name for the TX rat snake mutant. The cat mutant was named decades earlier. Your guess is as good as mine as to whether the two mutants have any biochemical similarity.

In the lab mouse, there is a recessive yellow mutant at the e locus and a dominant yellow mutant at the a locus. How's that for something hard to wrap your brain around?

Paul Hollander

slithering_serpents Jan 04, 2007 07:29 PM

to wrap your brain around. I don't think anyone is actually calling those cats leucistic except a few of us crazy 'snake freaks'. They are referred to as just "dominant whites", and who knows if they are really leucistic. They do indeed produce litters when bred together in all colors, so the leucistic look could be the het form, but it is WAY more likely that it is just a wacky dominant gene that mimics leucisticism. All we can really say is they are pure white with blue eyes. Have you seen those white doberman's with blue eyes? In pictures they look leucistic too, only in person can you tell that they actually have a tiny wash of very light off white. All very interesting. : )

Caden
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com

slithering_serpents Jan 06, 2007 01:14 PM

Yes, I have noticed that the same visual trait can be effected at more than one loci. Pretty fascinating really. I wish someone would take on mapping the boa genome *dream on*

Caden
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com

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