Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I only saw the one video. And I only see one thing wrong with it. The keeper was feeding it meat, not whole prey items. Of course feeding meat every once in a while will not harm any monitor, but its not a useful practice. Its more like a bad habit. No good comes from it, its merely EASY

About taming, there are lots and lots of monitors that will do what that Sav was doing. I have dozens of monitors of many species that will take food just like that. As I have mentioned, you may lose ears or other small parts by accident. But normally when they bite the wrong thing, they quickly spit it out. I get the feeling monitors hate the taste of us, or at least me. They spit me out and shake their heads like I tasted nasty.

Heck, I often let monitors get out of their cages and stay loose. They often follow me around and havest crickets I drop or mice I drop while I am working on crickets and mice. I did experience problems when they also harvested other monitors I dropped. They would in most cases sit on the lids of my baby rack for heat which is next to the food prep area. So I could hand feed them.

About this sav video, and taming. I have always said monitors seem to be tame naturally, unless offended. I have always recomended a reward system for taming monitors. From what I see, this is demonstrated in the video. The monitor is not being held, its in control. very very nice.

The problem is forced handling as a taming method is commonly practiced by beginers, as they do not have the brains god gave a pebble. Whoops, I am being FR again. Let me change that. It seems humans are not very smart. They may be able to make bombs and missiles, but have no idea about simple animal behavior and conditioning.

Once when my son was about 12, we went to a reptile shop in the San Diego area, they had this little rudi. The owner demonstrated how tame it was. It climbed up my sons arm, and then stood on its hind legs on his shoulder and took pinkies from the owners fingers. The only problem was my son got servere neck cramps, anticipating a nip on the neck. hahahahahahahahahaha

About the video, lets see the outcome before making judgements, will this cute little fella grow up and experience normal life events or will it follow the path of 99.99% of all other "other" tame Savs, die at a very young age of organ failure. Which is caused from undue stress and poor diet. That is the question. So if we can wait and see the outcome, you know results, that would be nice. But so far, its merely cute and common.

Oh by the way, for that poster, I have pics of wild lizards doing that very same thing. Thats cute too. Cheers

Beautifully stated Frank.

I don't deny that monitors can be tamed, and that they are naturally tame. I also don't particularly mind this person trying to "tame" their savs (although, I am not a fan of the force handling method they used), I just don't like the way that they are being taken care of.

They need to gain a better understanding of reptiles and their husbandry before they clown around with social behaviors.

Sadly, I agree with you that it is very unlikely that these animals will grow to a normal size and will suffer the same death as 99% of all other boscs (and niles, and waters).

But shoot Frank, savs are cheap. They can start the whole process again with another pair of $30 animals. There is no reason to worry.

Ryan

Monitors do not care about reptile husbandry. They do not care about the latest and greatest techniques. Monitors care about eating, digesting and staying alive in order to reproduce, period. Well same as us and any animal but they are more pure in that regard. It is this very predictable behavior that allows a certain level of ‘training’ to take place. That woman is simply attempting to exploit that. Good for her, I find that much more interesting than what most reptile keepers are doing (x temps, y substrate, blah blah).

If whatever she is doing results in healthy monitors then cool. So far so good as far as I can tell. Certainly there are no overt signs of distress expressed by them. If things go south then I hope she adjusts accordingly as she progresses. Maybe she will adjust all the way to what you feel is the ‘right’ way Ryan, but maybe not. She may wake up one day and have a full clutch in her underwear drawer ha.

I for one am not too hopeful that what she is doing will result in a ‘tamer’ monitor in the long run but who knows? I don’t.

Regards..

Tom

To eat and digest as you so simply put is ONLY to support a living animal to carry out its life.

You are thinking in such a basic manner, that its as harmful as forced taming. The ball does indeed swing both way.

As I crudely state, monitors should at least achieve basic "life events". Life events are hto grow, mature, reproduce and interact. Feeding is how they suppost this.

People make talk of cage enrichment and get all mushy, yet they do not understand that monitors NEED MENTAL STIMULATION.

Yes cage enrichment is part of that. But they soon get bored and need mental/social/active stimulation.

Sadly, doing something is better then doing nothing. As horrible as this sounds coming from me. I would rather see that Sav have a chance to bite that fellas nose off, then sit in a cage(box) doing nothing. At the very least, that Sav as a chance to score one for the varanids. I also love it what a monitor bites in a vindictive manner(vindictive=a thirst for revenge) You know, the old bulldog bite. hahahahahaha crunching back and forth, on that fellas nose. How sweet. But I wander.

When someone says to you, GET A LIFE, they mean venture from the basics. Monitors need a life and it appears so do you. Cheers

I never stated, or intended to state that stimulation or a ‘life’ is not required for a monitor. The woman in question is in fact providing more of this than most (living in a box vs biting her nose I think you put it).

The biological purpose we all share is reproduction and behavior is hard wired to that end. Monitors are very successful at achieving this goal and have it fine tuned over millions of years of evolution. Eating and digesting are merely examples of base inclusive requirements to reach that potential, not intended as all they 'need'. Their basic motivations tend to be am I hungry, if so where’s food (eat); am I warm / cool enough to function, if not where is it warm/cool enough (digest); am I safe, if not then fight or flight (security), etc. Basic stuff…all geared to live long and healthy enough to make babies. As a relatively advanced organism monitors have expanded these, but again only for the ultimate purpose of reproduction (few things that act against this drive survive the genetic pressures).

Her doing something different with her husbandry or attempting behavior modification by exploiting these rudimentary biological instincts is fine by me. Seems fine by the savs too from what I saw so far. I could be wrong, just an observation in contrast with everyone jumping on her like she is scum doing a diservice to reptile keepers everywhere.

Regards

Tom

If its the same crazy lady that is posting all over the reptile forum/chatroom scene (from what Ive been told in a few phone and IM discussions with others who post on alot of forums), they think they are doing something new or different, the last time I checked the same thing has been done and failed for more years than Ive been keeping monitors, even more years than Ive kept any reptiles, theres always someone who thinks they are doing something new and revolutionary. They are always new or newer keepers, imagine that.
This crazy lady even tried the delusion of considering getting the info on their "methods" published, I guess they may have realized its not so new or revolutionary.

The website and the methods that are practiced for caring for these monitors. It seems the original site has been replaced but here is a link to the new one
http://cnc-g-spot.com/Training.a.Sav/SavMain.html

The original talked about placing a sav in water until it goes belly up then being it's hero and rescuing it. It then I guess is supposed to see you as it's savior??

Anyway I agree the video is not that big of a deal. I myself would still urge for others not to try it especially if they have a croc monitor or lacie. Even with a sav I still would hate to think I caused someone to take an unneeded bite to the face.

I too await the outcome of these monitors but many of us already have seen what this type of keeping does to them. (free roaming, tame, feeding scrap meat, etc..)

I know, but I clarified that my response was from the one, first video. I now see, many others have a history with that poster. I do not. As you know, I do not visit other sites, this one and when ours is active are already to much for me. Cheers

I hope to see it up and running soon.

I figured you probly didn't see the rest of what was going on with that poster. I figured I would put that up so you could check it out.

ewwww missed the gem about drowning them and then saving them.

Ok she is deranged...

regards

Tom