Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi from canada again

Some guy's suggested that some of these would be some kind of Granits. They all came from LTC females and pastel males. One clutch the father is a Graziani pastel the rest are Bell line pastels.

I was wondering if other people out there have any similar pastels. Please feel free to post pics of yours if you do have some , i would really like to get to the bottom of this. ( Offcourse i'll get there "for sure "if there is anything special in the F2's.)

Note , in two of the clutches ( one fatehred by the Graziani pastel and the other fathered by the Bell pastel ) have visual similatities :

- All connected dorsal pattern ( with some that have patial to full striping )
- Clear bellies
- Greenish eyes
- All patels have very clear heads and still not darkening as you see on the recent pics ... ( I'll make a follow up to the thread with the pics of when they first hatched )
- Most if not all have different levels of speckling on the sides .

Here's some cool shots of one of them ...

A closer shot ...

Now the clutch of 10 including top and Belly/side shots of each one Father Bell Pastel - Mother normal LTC :

Recent shot of the whole litter :

Baby 1 ( pastel ):

Baby 2 ( pastel ) :

Baby 3 ( pastel ) :

Baby 4 :

Baby 5 :

Baby 6 :

Baby 7 :

Baby 8 :

Baby 9 :

Baby 10 :

Now two survivors of the second pastel clutch. Again From Bell pastel male to a LTC normal female. Not the same pattern as the other clutch , it reminds me a bit of the pattern you find on an indian python. I doubt that these would be Granits... :

Pastel 1 :

Pastel 2 :

Now two others . They are from the Bell pastel male again with a LTC again owned by S.Malo they too remind me of the pattern on an indian python not the Granit "ish" look :

Pastel 1 :

Pastel 2 :

And finally Another clutch From The Graziani pastel ( owned by Steph Dubois ) and an another LTC female we own . 2 survivors on a 6 egg clutch 1 pastel and one normal having the same caracteristics as the 10 egg clutch.

These are recent pics , there was 2 other complety formed pastels like that with a stripe and connected pattern on the top and 2 normal one with exactly the same characteristics.
I'll find pics of the dead ones and post them too.

I really hope that all of them are something genetic if its nothing they still are nice to my eyes.... we'll see for sure next year when we Breed the males back to the mothers and later the F1's together and F2's sometime later.

All ideas welcomed

A pic of the 2 male pastels , on left the Graziani and on the right The Bell one.

Stav

First off:
WOW. Your pastels, I mean, really, WOW. Those are some seriously gorgeous animals! I dono what you put in the water, but could I get some of that?

Your 'pastels' from the first clutch actually really look like superpastels, at least the pictures I've seen of supers. I don't know what an LTC is, though, so maybe it's something from the mom.
As far as being granite pastels, couldn't tell yah. I was wrong the last time someone asked if their snake was a granite so I think I will just not say anything this time around
Either way - your snakes are eye popping!

Those banded pastels just make my jaw drop. Congrats on your beautiful babies!

~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

"The problem with America is stupidity. Now, I'm not saying we use capital punishment, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?"

LTC = Long Term Captive

Which basically means a wild caught that has been in human possession for a considerable amount of time. The amount of time is arguable. I wouldn't buy an "LTC" from anyone I didn't trust.

-John

I would say they are Granite X Pastel crosses. Looks like you have a proven line. Maybe someone will chime in with another opinion but looks that way to me considering that so many have the same look.
To me it seems there must be a number of different Granite genes out there. Some are very different from yours. Take the one in NERDS-Kevin's Ball Python book. Way different than what you have. Yours look, to me, like the more common Granites you see. Nothing wrong with that considering it looks like yours are genetic and made your Pastels quite different from other Pastels.
By the way, they look great!

Let me know if you sell one of the babies from the first clutch. I may be interested.
Male or female.

Stunning animals.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

Wow, those pastels are awsome! Do you have pictures of the females that produced them?

They definitely look like Granite Pastels. They are gorgeous and resemble our crosses we produced last season. Ours look very similar but are not granite crosses. We will find out more this season with ours as we are running the same pairing this season again. The first 2 pics are one of our females taken testerday and the other three are one of the crosses as a hatchling.

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Rob Trenor
RK Reptiles
www.rkreptiles.com
www.rkreptiles.net
www.ballpythonmorphs.net

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They look like Granite pastels. They look just like the ones I produced last year. Check it out.

there's one thing I don't understand... exactly how many females and males were involved in this project? You mention two pastels.. but were there more than one female as well? Congratulations regardless! They are awesome animals and wish you the best with that project!

Regards,
Bristen.

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___________________________
www.RoyalGemReptiles.com

Thanks alot for the pictures Rob and Joe its really apreciated Thanks for the comments everyone too , we'll do the same pairings as last year this year and see if more come out like this .

Yes Bristen ( sorry for the misunderstanding as you know my english sucks badly... ) , these are multiple clutches all Bell line male to LTC 50$ females picked up from private and reptile stores and wholesalers here in Montreal.... Except the last set of three pics which is a Graziani ( Steph's male ) pastel bred to another LTC female.

I'll post some pics of the females as well we took some recent ones not long ago and have some on cd's of the females on the eggs.... have to find them.

Here's some pics on when they hatched until then ...

Stav

>
wow!! So how many females were involved? That means you have proven more than one granite female to be genetic at once?? That is excellent!!

I found (only today) pictures of a granite x pastel from a Daytona 2004 expo online... They all look very similar to yours.. they are all unique and yours appear to be a tad different, but I'd say that is a granite x pastel cross for sure now having seen a few pictures of different ones recently...

>
you have no idea how I look forward to seeing those pictures Stav!! Does anyone of them look like the following animals by any chance???

Keep us posted, sounds like lots of fun!

Bristen.
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___________________________
www.RoyalGemReptiles.com

wow!! So how many females were involved? That means you have proven more than one granite female to be genetic at once?? That is excellent!!

I found (only today) pictures of a granite x pastel from a Daytona 2004 expo online... They all look very similar to yours.. they are all unique and yours appear to be a tad different, but I'd say that is a granite x pastel cross for sure now having seen a few pictures of different ones recently...

>
you have no idea how I look forward to seeing those pictures Stav!! Does anyone of them look like the following animals by any chance???

Well thanks Bristen Some people look at me like a kind of weirdo when I find something weird in some snakes and buy them which would be considered "Normals" by another eye... I wouldent want to speak to early as far as proved out or not though , I would like Denis to make more breedings this year with our balls, with the same females and males and next year with the male pastels to their mothers and the year after the F1's together if the females are ready... Until then I consider them weird Granit"ish" normals.....Who know's they might have turned out this way maybe because of temperature during incubation or something else that is physic ....

If it really is something genetic I think that many people have "Granit "ish" " balls in their collections that came out of the tons of wild shipements here in Canada....
For the pictures you posted , I wouldent be surprised that you have some sort similar/same thing in your hands the most stunning resemblance is the black connected pattern on the top of your snakes you posted

As I said to you in a french forum , when you are ready , if you want to borrow a pastel or two and breed it with the weirdo pastel you got last year it will be a pleasure Who know's....

Stav

The clutch of 10.... I was surpised when I saw the color of their heads at first...

Half of them after they came out of the eggs...

More with all of them + 1 from a previous clutch of a single fertile egg ( not pastel )....

Same 3 pastels of this liter of 10 eggs...

The other liter of three with S.Malo ....Note these eggs where opened to early because of a mistake in laying date. maybe the reason of the kinked one.




The kinked one...

Steph's breeding loan with his Graziani...

I'll find more and post them another day ...

Stav

They are all really different.(Looks like you found some really interesting females!)...Very nice!
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Charles

Stav, I have to say that they are BAD @SS! Good luck this year and I hope you can produce more so the rest of us can get in on that

WOW! Jeff