Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am a new pet owner, and was thinking about breeding just for fun. I would not be selling these, just keeping them as pets and maybe giving a few away to friends/family. I repeat, I would just be keeping them as pets. I was informed I would be "SHREDDED" if I talked about selling them for monetary gain in this forum by a less than helpful contributor; so I am just clarifying my purpose. It would be the females' first breeding, and was wondering about how many to expect. I would purchase a hovabator or the like to incubate. I want to go into this being able to support the babies and keep them healthy. Thanks all in advance for your help.

Like stated before (though my post got deleted, sorry) my friend's geckos seem to drop between 6 and 8 egg pairs, though one of his females consecutively has about 10. This female also lays her eggs almost exactly every three weeks, which is kind of wierd.

I've had first year females lay as few as 4 clutches and as many as 13. Their starting body weight, nutrition, genetics, and health all play a role. Also first time breeders are more likely to lay infertile eggs.
Another thing is that any temp fluctuations can kill off the eggs. So all eggs that are laid and are fertile may not necessarily hatch.
Depending on the sex you are incubating for the eggs will hatch between 28-70 days(aproximately). So with one female you should have enough time to prepare for new arivals.
I hope that helps and good luck.
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Brian
www.windycitygeckos.com

"I've had first year females lay as few as 4 clutches and as many as 13. Their starting body weight, nutrition, genetics, and health all play a role. Also first time breeders are more likely to lay infertile eggs.
Another thing is that any temp fluctuations can kill off the eggs. So all eggs that are laid and are fertile may not necessarily hatch.
Depending on the sex you are incubating for the eggs will hatch between 28-70 days(aproximately). So with one female you should have enough time to prepare for new arivals.
I hope that helps and good luck.
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Brian"

Brian, good comments. However, you may mean that gross temperature fluctuations can kill off the eggs. In nature and "self-sustaining" setups, temperature fluctuations (less than 10 degrees) are normal and hatching results are not dramatically impacted.
Also, 28 days seems to be a very short hatch time. I believe the least number of days I've ever had was around 50 but I've never gone over 90 degrees hatching temperature either.
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http://wkern.msspro.com/supremegecko.html

THis is not ment to be hostile in any way just a explantion of a few things.
Well I can't say for certain what has killed mine or others hatchlings off but I've heard that temperature fluctuations can not only kill offspring but cause deformities also. As an example if you are incubating at low temps a few degrees would be enough to ruin the egg in my opinion. Also if you are at high female or low male temps I would think that a few degree swing would do harm to the hatchlings.
I have hatched several males at 28-35 days. This is earlier than average but the female in question had offspring hatching early all year( male and female). My males were temp at 89 and females at 83. I've had females that hatched out at 46 days.
I have spent the last few years outcrossing our lines to ensure health in them. In this I find that they grow much faster and seem to hatch earlier than before. I have many that have reached 50 grams inside of 6 months. None of which are giants.
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Brian
www.windycitygeckos.com

No hostility taken, and I'm not trying to question anyone's leopard husbandry.
Ron Tremper's book relates to changing temps mid hatch. I've done this as well w/o adverse affects.
Also, at the temperatures you mentioned, most breeders' hatch out their eggs much later. I would be interested in hearing about other breeders' records.
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http://wkern.msspro.com/supremegecko.html

When I stated a temp flux I was refering to up and down not just a one time thing.
As for the temperature change mentioned in Trempers book I wouldn't recommend it. It will give you characteristics that aren't necessarily true to the gecko. It makes what is reffered to as a HOT Female. THis is a female that is abnormally agressive and can also be sterile. You may increase the looks of that particular gecko but you are not really changing the genetics of it either. So when the person you sell to tries to breed them they will get far less than what they bargained for. Infact I would expect anyone doing so to list any animals bred this way for such reasons.
The hatch rates I go by are common among most breeders I know. Excluding the one female that has what I might call premies in that although fully developed with a total eggsack absorbtion seem smaller. Which they regain as they age. I would say normally a female at 83 degrees hatches around 56 days for me. A male at 89 degrees hatches at around 44. I have however seen many hatch long before these dates.
Just out of couriosity how long have you been breeding for? It looks like you may want to relabel your available page as you have alot of wrongly marked offspring.
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Brian
www.windycitygeckos.com

Brian,
Thanks for the clarifications. However, if you look back at your original post, you state that "temperature fluctuations can not only kill offspring but cause deformities also. As an example if you are incubating at low temps a few degrees would be enough to ruin the egg in my opinion". Again, Tremper, and other breeders would disagree with this. I cannot imaging that in nature the temperatures don't fluctuate on a daily basis. The question about whether this is a good thing or bad thing is up to the breeder.

Also, again, I've not heard of a 28 day incubation time. If you are getting this, great. I would like to hear other breeder's opinions.

Finally, thanks for the comments about my page. I will take a look at any corrections that may be needed. If you have specific suggestions, would you mind e-mailing me.
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http://wkern.msspro.com/supremegecko.html

All I can tell you is after getting a better incubater and not messing with the temps my hatch rate jumped to the upper 90%. Take what you will from that but I am basing off of my own personal experience not from someone elses.
By the way you failed to mention how long you have been breeding.
As for suggestions I would start by looking in Trempers book and reading the description of what the different morphs are and labelling yours correctly.
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Brian
www.windycitygeckos.com

Now I sort of remember you. You changed your website didn't you?
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Brian
www.windycitygeckos.com

All I can tell you is after getting a better incubater and not messing with the temps my hatch rate jumped to the upper 90%. Take what you will from that but I am basing off of my own personal experience not from someone elses.
By the way you failed to mention how long you have been breeding.
As for suggestions I would start by looking in Trempers book and reading the description of what the different morphs are and labelling yours correctly.

Brian,
These threads are meant to share info with others. I'm sure you would agree that we are getting a bit off track from original post. I appreciate the information but would ask that you e-mail me any additional info concerning my web page (btw-classifications are correct).

As far as incubation times, personal experience can certainly be the best teacher but I would still appreciate any other feedback from other breeders on the 28 days.
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http://wkern.msspro.com/supremegecko.html

Like you said this is a place to help others along with ourselves to gather information. We have a disagreement on a couple of points and are discussing our opiniions on the matters.
I am more than welcoming anyone else to share their experience and research in the hatch rate of male Leos. I previously stated that I had several which if memory serves me correctly was in all honosty one at 28, one at 29 and two more in the 36 range. I couldn't find the hatch record for the later two to tell exactly. So if anyone else has any findings please feel free to share.
I have a couple of quick questions. Was your old website a black background with red/orange lettering? Also are you based in Canada? I'm just trying to see if yours is the same website I remember.
By the way am I mistaken or has there been changes made to your current site?
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Brian
www.windycitygeckos.com

I would not be too worried about telling people that you hope to make a few dollars breeding. If they are normals you won't get much, but it is nice to get a little bit of your money back after buying all the extra caging and food. Besides if you were just to breed them with the hopes of loads of extra cash you would not be breeding for long. I consistantly lose money every year once food, caging, and the purchase of new studs is added up. However every year my Leo collection looks nicer and nicer.

Last year my worst female laid 6 eggs, 2 of which were infertile. My best female put out 22 eggs that all hatched. Both were bred to the same male and were only 5 grams different in size.

just out of curiousity, what temps would those days correspond to roughly?

89 would be the low end and incubating for males.

81 would be the high end and incubating for females.

If you went with 85, it's in the middle and you'll get a mix of males and females.

I think there is nothing wrong with breeding and selling offspring. The problem comes when new breeders pop up thinking they are going to be able to care for all the offspring, and they are not even setup correctly, then think they are going to make it rich selling the geckos.

If you are doing this just for fun to say you've done it, then try only breeding one female first. Some first years do much better than others, and you may be in over your head if that were to happen. Since you plan on giving them to family and friends it would be best to setup a plan, so you know they are ready when you need to start moving the offspring out. This way you have room incase your female does produce more than you can handle. Leo offspring can grow faster then you would expect. I house all my hatchlings by themselves, and some breeders house only clutchmates together, then seperate them as they grow. Don't house a bunch of babies together they will constently be competing for food hides, etc.
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www.LeopardGeckoBreeder.com

www.LeopardGeckoArt.com

9.23.22 Leos
0.0.1 AFT
1.1 Red Ear Sliders
0.0.1 Russian Tort
1.0 Pembroke Corgi
0.2 Cats
8 fish

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question. It certainly gave me lots to think about. And sorry if I seemed a little harsh in my question, I was a little steamed.

I can understand your hesitancy in posting if you were told you would be "shredded" for mentioning the aspect of selling your geckos. I don't know where that came from though. This forum exists to help those with questions about the husbandry of their geckos.

You've received some excellent advice here. Keep asking questions and I'm sure you will be fine.

Best of luck!
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http://wkern.msspro.com/supremegecko.html