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This winter I hatched out an albino suboc from an albino x silver blonde pairing. Obviously, this was completely unexpected. All of the other eight siblings were normally colored and normally patterned Triple Hets, as they should have been.

I can trace my silver blonde female's genealogy back to the very first axanthic blondes that Mark Bell hatched. Todd Smith and Glenn Fankhauser bred my silver girl's grandparents, and they hatched out several silvers while trying for snow back in the day. So my silver is apparently het for albino, and the only albino ancestry that I see possible for her would be European albino from Todd's Triple Hets. The weird thing is that my adult albino male who sired this clutch is a Loma Alta albino bloodline snake.

My point is that this is possible proof that the Loma Alta and European lines of albino are compatible/allelic.
This makes sense because they both are missing the frontal scale.

Regardless, this was the first albino suboc that was 100% het for silver (snow) and blonde.

Sadly, the snake died as it tried to leave the egg still attached to the shell by its umbilicus. We'll try it again this year.

Suboc.com

Sad that you lost it, but exciting to see what happens next year!!!!
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Regards, Bill McGighan

wow- you had your plan come a lil early! nice looking! but sad. Golly how exciting regardless? keep that picture forever. and i'd love to see what comes out this year!!
~kin
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~Sober Serpents~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~SNAKIES~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Corns:
.1 Normal (Gertrude) [just a pet...she started it all]
1. Orange normal (Romeo)
1.2 Miami Phase (Hector, Emily, Charlotte) thanks jeff!
2. Miami Phase part zigzag (Starkey, Mcvitty)[Emilys F2]
1. Amel het Blizzard (Dunesbury) .1 Blizzard (Detta)
1. Classic het Hypo, poss het Amel, Anery (Cobra)
1.1 Classics (Henry VIII, Cassy) [Emilys F1 babies]
.1 Deep Red Amel (Pepperoni) *1. Deep red amel coming soon!
1.1 Hypo zig zags poss HET Caramel (Bernard, Abegail)
.1 Hypo HET Stripe (Gracie Lou) 1. Hypo Stripe (Gideon)
1.1 Anery HET Motley (Lleroy, Persia)
.1 Candy Cane (Peaches HoneyBlossom) [Just a pet]
1. Abbotts Okeetee (Albert) [Charlottes son]
1.1 Snow (Crickle, Isis) .1 Green Snow (Maya)
1. Caramel poss HET Butter (Topher)
.1 Anery stripe (V) [husbands snake...he named it]
.1 Orange Reverse Okeetee (Lonna)
1.2 Bloodred HET Amel 1. Amel HET Bloodred

Others:
1.1 Black rats (Willard, Cecily)
1.1 Striped Cal Kings (Dweezil, Skunky)
1. High-white Reverse Spotted Cal King (Wishbone) *.1 soon!
.1 Albino Stripe Cal King (Eve)
.1 Bananna spotted/stripe cal king (Speckle) Thanks Jeff!!!
1.1 Thayeri (Giuseppe[MSP], Cheyenne)
1.1 Creamsicle HET Motley(Orangejello, Genevieve)
1. Creamsicle motley (no name) Thanks Jimmy!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~LEOPARD GECKOS~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.1 Blizzard (Blitz)
.1? High yellow (no name)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~TURTLES~~~~~~~~~~~~
.1 white cheeked mud (Opel)
.1 snapping turtle (no name, ideas welcome)

I don't think you showed that they are the same trait yet. One out of 9 is very low for albino X het. Maybe some error giving it two alleles from the albino parent? I'd like to hear what happens next clutch, to see if this was a one-time event or if you do have a het albino/same trait situation. One in 9 just sounds too low to me though.
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"I'll be back at 6 if not 7. 8 the very latest but definatly no later than 9...ish...Moscow time."

>>I don't think you showed that they are the same trait yet. One out of 9 is very low for albino X het. Maybe some error giving it two alleles from the albino parent? I'd like to hear what happens next clutch, to see if this was a one-time event or if you do have a het albino/same trait situation. One in 9 just sounds too low to me though.

I'm not sure I've shown it yet either, but the fact is that both the Loma Alta AND European albinos are missing the frontal scale on the head. That, in and of itself, seems strangely related. The River Road (Dave Long) albinos have the frontal scale intact. It seems ridiculous to assume that they shouldn't be allelic/compatible to each other. River Road in Brewster Co., where blondes come from and where the axanthic blondes are descended from, is pretty far from Loma Alta where my albino male comes from. It doesn't seem likely that that same allele would be floating around several hundred miles away.

I already stated that my silver female is a probable het for European albino that came from poss. het parents that Todd Smith and Glenn Fankhauser produced in the late 90s. So, it seems much more likely, and all of the other suboc people who I've talked to seem to agree with me, that this very well may have proven that the two lines are compatible. And I know of PLENTY of instances where the expected ratio was extremely way off in either direction. That's actually really common, just as common as getting all of one sex in a certain clutch.

I am anxious to see what happens in next year's clutch. And I really can't think of a more likely reason for this to occur.

DR

Suboc.com

Dusty,
The eouropean line was also from hyw 277 near loma alta.
Shannon

>>Dusty,
>>The eouropean line was also from hyw 277 near loma alta.
>>Shannon

Hey Shannon,

Glenn from Y-Knot told me that the German collector who serendipitously hatched them out over there had collected his subocs on the River Road.

What your saying seems more likely to me, but that is just what I was told.

Glenn and Todd got their first albino stuff through a European dealer named Helmut Hansen.

Wherever they're from, they are most likely caused by the same gene as the Loma's.

Dusty Rhoads
Suboc.com

They are from Loma and not R.R.
E-mail Soderburg on this.I believe he has the skinny.I remember Helmut Hansen and I remember 277 on them.
There has been 3 amels found on the River Road.I was there the Night Dave found his at the south end near the windmill.
I was there a couple years later when Tim Eagan found one near Lajitas and sold it to Troy Hibbitts.It ended up dieing in Brumation and was more like a t rather than a t- like Daves.

Then about three or four years ago Don Long (good friends but no relations with Dave) found a amel on R.R also and it died in a brumation accident at Daves house but they had produced some out of it.

Anyway,I am about 95% sure that the "eouropean" line was collected from loma area.
Shannon

>>There has been 3 amels found on the River Road.

There have actually been four albinos found on the River Road. Lee Frasier also found one on the mud flats west of Big Hill.

>>Anyway,I am about 95% sure that the "eouropean" line was collected from loma area.
>>Shannon

I wouldn't doubt it. They're similar, morphologically, to the Lomas. On a weird side note, Glenn and Todd have hatched out a couple of "Euros" with the frontal scale intact, but most of the Euro amels have hatched without one.

DR

Suboc.com

Yes,
I had heard of the fourth but had no info so didn't mention it.

Anyway,I am not suprised that Todd has produced some with the scale.I would have guessed that would happen especially with outbreeding.

I have some albino Mcgurdy Gophers (from the sissors crossing area of Borrego) and some have two pre frontals and some have four?makes no since but it is what it is.
Shannon

Interesting. Now that I think about it, I'm sure the odds of having a het and the wild ratio are higher than a genetic error resulting in a freak albino. Either way, I'd like to hear about the next clutch! Good luck to you.
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"I'll be back at 6 if not 7. 8 the very latest but definatly no later than 9...ish...Moscow time."