Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK, so I went to a pet store today and saw this little guy. He looked soo thin and unhappy. I am hoping that we can help him out. Yes, I have a soft spot for the underdog. Any suggestions on how to help this little fella would be greatly appreciated. He is much more active now that he is in good temps in the basking area. He ate one cricket and is moving around so much more. Let me know. I hope we can help him. Supposedly he's about the same age as Gizmo, who is behind him.

My first concern is that his eyes are closed in the picture. This is a sign of stress in Dragons. How big (long) is Gizmo? And how big is the new one? If they are more than an inch apart I would separate them right away. The little one is thin probably because it's a very non-aggresive Dragon. When stressed dragons don't eat as well as hide and close their eyes.

Gizmo is about, and I'm guessing cause he won't sit still long enough to measure, eight to nine inches long. Bam is probably 7 inches. This is including their tales. Gizmo has actually been pretty friendly to the new guy. He doesn't bother him and has only gone up to him a few times to "lick" him. LOL I'm not sure why he does it but it's not in a nasty way. There has been no head bobbing or anything to that effect. These guys were actually tank mates before my husband bought Gizmo and my husband told me that Bam was not in this condition when he bought Gizmo. We have been keepin a close eye on them and at the first sign of aggresion I will seperate them. Bam ate today and is so much more alert and active. He comes up to you when you walk up to the tank and he looks at you in that quizical way of theirs. I'm hoping he just needs some extra TLC. I know now that I should have seperated them, but being new to this did not know that when I brought him home yesterday. I just wanted to help the little guy out.
Rebecca

Bam is emmacipated, that is to say very skinny. You can easily see his hip bones in the second picture, his arms are like stinks and his head fat storage areas are nonexistent.

Personally I would house Bam alone completely till he is fully recovered from being half starved to death by the pet shop. Having another dragon in the same cage could put more stress on him, even if that dragon was a cage mate before. Also, it is much easier to monitor the new comer's health, how much he eats etc, without another dragon in the same cage. Also, it will remove any risks to Gizmo, who though only a few weeks away from the petstore himself, could become infected with parasites, should your new dragon have them. Bad husbandry conditions and stress can cause severe flareups of internal parasites in a dragon.

Feed Bam small crickets, waxworms, phoenix worms (these are great little fly larvae newly available on the market, they are small soft bodied, high in calcium, and very lively), small silkworms etc to get his weight back. Make sure he is well hydrated as well, give soaks in luke warm water (about 75F), use a needleless syringe to offer water mixed with either store bought electrolites, or diluted gaterade to help stimulate your dragon to drink plenty of fluids. A form of pro-biotics could also be offered as well, or if you can get it, parazap may help too. A fresh fecal should be given to your reptile vet so he can test for internal parasites as well.

In the separate cage, get a fresh UVB bulb and heat lamp with proper temps etc. Pretty much leave him alone except to feed, water and soak. I suggest offering soft bodied insect foods (silkworms, waxworms, pheonix worms etc) in small amounts several times a day for the first week, then increase the amount offered. Once he is eating regularly and all you offer, you can move him back onto crickets, silkworms and pheonix worms with some greens as well. Wax worms should not be given as more than a treat normally but to help your new dragon put on some weight, giving them now would be beneficial but cut back after a week or two after he starts to eat regularly and starts to fill out more.
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PHLdyPayne

First, you did not use adequate quarantine procedures, which means that anything wrong with the new beardie is now in your other beardie. Any parasitic infection, or worse, will now have infected your other dragon. You should never put a new animal near an established animal without quarantining the new animal for long enough to be reasonably sure that it is healthy. Putting an animal that you believe may be unhealthy in with your supposedly healthy dragon is just insane.

Also, in the future it is best to not buy reptiles that appear to be in poor care, because all that does is help fund the people that put them in that condition. By buying one reptile, you're giving them enough money to buy many more to take its place.

Please don't put me down for trying to do the right thing. I understand that you should not fund the places that have poor conditions but should I let an innocent animal die if I have a chance to help it??????
I didn't know about the quarintine policy until after I had brought Bam home and started reading up on having two Dragons. I did not expect to have two as I just got Gizmo on the 21st of December. Just so you know Bam is eating today and highly active. My first impression is that he didn't have adequate heat in the tank and was not being fed several times a day. I will do my best and came here for advice on how to try and save him. Not to be berated.

He was not Berating you .. he was just trying to give you reasonable information .. for your new beared dragon .

some stuff is important to know .. and i would asume this is important .. it could totally cost you more then what you bought the poor guy for .

well good luck .. with your new beardie and old beardie

OK, so I may be a little sensitive today. You will have to forgive me as I've had a migraine for three days now. I just felt like I was being told that I did something wrong especially with the "insane" thing. I am only trying to help my little guy out and did not realize I was supposed to quarintine him. I will keep an eye on Gizmo to make sure things are ok. Bam has had a BM and there is nothing moving around in it and he is eating really good today. He's also a lot more active and alert. I'm hoping that all he needed was a better feeding schedule and an actual heat source as it was pretty non existent at the store. Again, sorry if I took it wrong I'm not my normal self today.

for the most part, internal parasites are not visible to the naked eye, so you won't be able to see parasites in his bowel movement. There are some worms that do get large enough as adults to be visible but these tend to be more rare in dragons. As I mentioned earlier, I would separate both dragons, even if you have to set up your new dragon in a rubbermaid or sterlite container till you can get another 20 gal tank or similiar. As long as the basking bulb isn't laying against the side of the container, there isn't any risk of melting the rubbermaid by the heat of the lamp.

At the moment I have my own dragon in a sterlite container. Not the best setup but it was all i was able to provide. Was hoping to sell one of my other lizards before getting my dragon by that didn't go through, so couldn't use the 20 gal tank I had. But I am building a large adult enclosure i will move my dragon into within the next couple weeks, sectioning off part of it till she gets big enough to feel comfortable in it.

Oh for the UVB light, what i used is just a piece of board, could be scrap wood lying around the house or a 1"x6"x36" (or shorter, depending on length of container) bought at a hardware store. Most lumber stores will have 'cast offs' available for a cheap price. Cast offs are basically left over lengths of wood from longer sheets customers had cut at the store and didn't need or want. Or intact sections of broken boards etc. To this I screwed on a 18" under cabinet florescent light (these are pretty cheap to buy, I pay about $15 Canadian), remove the plastic cover over the bulb (it comes with a standard florescent tube) and the bulb itself. Replace with an 18" UVB bulb, leave the cover off (the cover will block the UVB rays). With it mounted to the board you can just lay the board over the top of the container so it shines into the cage. A basic hooded clamp light fixture can be used for the basking light, or a fixture attached to a stand. Angle so light shines on the basking spot. Typically a 75W is more than enough to provide correct temps for the basking spot.

Pretty much all the parts you need you can get at any typical home hardware type store. Just have to buy the UVB florescent tube at the petstore and it will be the most expensive part.

Just use paper towel as the substrate and get a fresh stool sample for your vet to check for parasites. It should be less than 24 hours old and you can keep it in the fridge between the time it is removed from the cage (as fresh as possible) and brought to the vet. Don't freeze it. Freezing will destroy all the spores etc making it useless to determine if any parasites are actually in your animal.
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PHLdyPayne

But I just don't want to see a healthy dragon put in harm's way. Get fecals checked for both. If they spot anything in either of the fecals, you'll have to treat both animals, because they will both have it.

I just think people should keep in mind where the money is going when they 'rescue' an animal. When I was young I bought a bearded dragon from a dirty store because I thought I was doing a good thing for the dragon. Not only did I end up with hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars in vet bills, within a month the guy had twice as many horrible looking beardies that had taken the place of the one I had purchased. Just remember next time that for every reptile you buy anywhere, the store has made enough money to put many more in its place.

Good luck with your dragons.

Ryan,
I really do appreciate your input and knowledge. I did not mean to snap back at you. I will definitley locate a Herp Vet in my area and get some samples in. I know what you mean about stores just buying more and I can't buy them all so I know how it will turn out. It's just that this little one broke my heart and I couldn't stand it anymore. He is doing a hundred times better just in the two days since we brought him home and so far Gizmo is his usual self. There is no funny poop in the cage and they are both eating very well. I may have gotten lucky, I hope, this time but will know better if there should ever be a next time.
Rebecca

You may have gotten lucky. Bearded dragons are all captive bred, so usually the only thing you have to worry about with them are parasites (unless they were housed with other species). Take in a sample when you get a chance, but you might have gotten off easy on this one.

Bearded dragons are less of a risk than most other species of reptile, but remember next time to quarantine