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chameleon suspect MBD please help

gemqtpie Mar 14, 2006 09:05 AM

I have a baby chameleon of around 3 months old hes a male velied chameleon. He has been in great health ever since i got him shedding regular and growing fast up until about 2 weeks ago.

He has now seemed to have stopped growing but he is still rather small the length of my hand. He is no way near adult size. Also he is not exploring his tank as he used to he just sits right at the top of the tank and hardly moves. This has only happened in that last few weeks but a week ago i was in the room and i heard a thud. He had fallen from the top of his cage. I looked him over picked him up he was very shakey nothing seemed broken. i do not handel him alot to avoid stress but when i look at him it seems like he cant lift his body weight. His knee joints on his front legs do not look right they are not straightening as he walks and there are equal bumps on the same place on each legs now this could be just his bones but i havent seen them before. I suspected metabolis bone disease but he has had calcium drops since i got him every week and he has a UV D3 flourescent tube light. There is something wrong with how he is walking and seems to be putting the weight on his lower leg rather than his foot and ankle to lify himself. Ive notcied him be shakey but i thought this was from the fall and he does seem to struggle climbing.
Any suggestions of what i can do am i giving him to much calcium? i dont understand how this has happened ive kept to the book on the correct husbandry.

Replies (3)

kinyonga Mar 21, 2006 09:12 AM

In three months, he shouldn't have reached adult size. You said he was about as long as your hand....tail included?

You said that he has a "UV D3 flourescent tube light"...I assume you mean a fullspectrum light that includes UVB? The UVB light shouldn't have glass or plastic between it and the chameleon. If he doesn't get direct sunlight at all, then IMHO this is not enough UVB to give him the vitamin D3 that he needs. I live in a climate where my chameleons could only be outside getting real sunlight for a couple of months in the summer so I dust the crickets with a vitamin D3/calcium powder in addition to calcium powder and a vitamin/mineral powder on a regular schedule. Chameleons that are not full grown need a different schedule than adults.

Proper temperature is also important in that he needs to be able to warm up enough to digest his food so that he can use the nutrients it provides.

Here are some sites that you might like to read...
http://www.chameleonjournals.com/vet/
http://adcham.com/
http://www.chameleonnews.com/index.html

You should also be gutloading the insects that you feed to your chameleon. There is a good gutload on ADCHAM (above).

Signs of MBD include shakey walk (but they also do that back and forth walk that shouldn't be confused with shakey walking), soft flexible or crooked casque, arms that look like they have another elbow joint, inability to lift themselves up to walk, crooked legs, etc.

Although the damage that is done cannot be reversed, the bones can be strenghened and the chameleon can go on to live quite a long life.

A vet could help you get his calcium back in line and tell you what else, if anything needs to be done to help him.

If you have any other questions...feel free to ask.

gemqtpie Mar 21, 2006 12:17 PM

thank you for you advice.
Yes he is just over the length of my hand tail included. he does look like he has another elbow joint on his front legs and looks like he is struggeling to climb he has fallen too. he looks like he is crawling on his front legs and not lifting his front up.
There is nothing between the light and the chameleon only a wire mesh to stop him sitting on the light. We have thought maybe replacing the light? maybe it is too old i dont know.
I do gut load the food with specialised calcium feed plus fruit and veg.
He has been having liquid calcium drops called bone aid ever since i got him. We have also bought him some Vit D3 solar drops in the mean time that you give once a week to help the D3 production.

If best i would like to avoid the vets as the vets in my area do not specialise in reptiles and the best vets are over 4-5 hours away. I have already lost a snake to the vets ignorrance she had a respiratory infection and i asked for swab tests so we knew how to treat it but they said no and gave her antibiotic injections which i later found out were for cattle and poultry not reptiles. They never worked and in the end she began to fit so i rushed her back in and demanded the tests and that i was right with the diagnoses all along but they did not listen, anyway she died that night. So i am quite sceptical to trust the vets here as they havent a clue.

But i will research as much info as i can to prevent him getting worse i mean he is only a few months old so maybe when he grows more his bones will strengthen enough so hecan climb more easily.

kinyonga Mar 21, 2006 06:11 PM

You are welcome for the information!

It sounds like its an imbalance....but I'm not a vet so I can't be sure. Its not only vitamin D3 and calcium that can play a part in this....vitamin A is often involved too.

I'm not familiar with the use of bone aid or solar drops. I have heard of both, but never used them. I use a liquid calcium that can be bought at the pharmacy (calcium gluconate)if I feel that they need a good dose of calcium. You said you use solar drops to "to help the D3 production"...if a chameleon receives proper light (sunlight or UVB) then it gets what it needs from the light to make vitamin D3 which in turn enables the chameleon to use the calcium. If the vitamin D3 comes from a source like solar drops, then its already in the form that the chameleon can use and can therefore be overdosed. Vitamin A in a beta carotene form cannot be overdosed but in a preformed form it can. Vitamins A and D3 and calcium all need to be in balance or the result can produce MBD symptoms(among other things). Read the chameleon journals articles on this for a better picture of it.

This is what I do/use...for ADULT veileds, I gutload all insects with a wide variety of fruits and veggies and greens, etc. I dust the crickets twice a month lightly with Rep-Cal calcium/D3 powder and twice a month lightly with Herptivite before giving them to the chameleons. I dust a couple of times a week with Rep-Cal calcium. For babies, subadults, and gravid females I dust at almost every feeding with calcium. I use a Repti-sun 5.0 UVB light.I keep the baby veileds at temperatures in the mid-80's and the adult males get a basking area where the temperature is in the high 80's to low 90'sF. The temperature of the females, I keep more moderate than the males, and I also control the females food more.

If the light is older than 6 months, then its a good idea to replace it. I assume that the bulb includes UVB in the right range? What brand is it? I don't know where you are but if its warm enough sunlight is the best source of light for a chameleon., of course.

I understand that its sometimes hard to find a vet who works with reptiles....but there are some excellent ones out there...and a knowledgeable vet can get him back in balance faster than can be done any other way.

You said..."i will research as much info as i can to prevent him getting worse i mean he is only a few months old so maybe when he grows more his bones will strengthen enough so hecan climb more easily"...I have seen a few who make a remarkable recovery. They will still have whatever damage (crooked bones, etc.) that have already occurred, but the bones can strengthen....but you need to work on getting him back in balance ASAP. Other damage besides bone problems come along with imbalances depending on what the imbalance is caused by.

I hope that he can be stronger soon!

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