Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My two corns got very sick. (One definitely worse than the other.) Same as the balls. Twisting neck. Couldn't hold head up without wobbling. Looked like they were gasping for air. Generally looking very distraught.

I found a vet who'd see me, but he's on the other side of the state, and that means crossing a mountain pass, with some nasty weather right now. I hated to do it, but not seeing any other choice than to sit and watch every one of my snakes die and wonder why, I decided to risk it. I packed up the two snakes in question with heat packs and headed over. I had to go last night, and stay the night. Both snakes made it.

He seemed to think that they had somehow been poisoned. I left them there.

I racked my brain and racked my brain all the way home. I am generally very careful about what I use in my home. I have a lot of critters here.

Then it struck me. I have loaned my vaccum cleaner to somebody. I know that that somebody had been battling a flea problem in their home. I did not think a thing of it. I got the vaccum back, and stuck it in my closet, and when it was time to vaccum, I just pulled it out and used it. I didn't change the bag or filters or anything. It really didn't even occur to me. I tried to find out what chemicals my friend has used, and she was no help. "Bug bombs and a buncha spray stuff." I am doing all I can to find out what it was, because this is the only thing I can think of. I'll call the lab that is doing necropsies on the dead snakes in the morning and see what they think, too. The vet seemed to think it plausible. I dunno.

Dealing with animals as many years as I have, I am usually quite aware of how pathogens, parasites and toxins are spread. I can't believe I could do something this stupid. I really kind of hope that isn't what happened, and at the same time, hope is is. Hope for some sort of difinitive andswers.

In the maentime, I am looking forward to hearing from the lab about the dead snakes, and the vet about the live ones. Hopefully they will pull through. One of them looked awfuly sick.

You also might check with your rodent source (if not your own colony) if they have been treating for parasites. My rat breeder's employees started dusting with something that made most of the balls regurgitate for two weeks in a row before we figured it out. Then a few weeks later I lost several babies in rapid succession who couldn’t seem to digest their meals after the dusting was stopped. The babies didn't regurgitate the original dusted animals (maybe they should have!) so all I can think is it damaged their digestive tract.

I havent seen you on here in months, I hope all is well

Work slowed down from 70 - 90 hours a week ( 15 commute) to 40 so now I feel like I'm on vacation and have time for the Internet again. Oh well, back to work …

Good luck! I hope you find out what it was. I know you must be devastated about losing so many of your snakes. Keep us updated please.
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Alice Cobb

Stryder, Do a search for inorganic phosphates and reptiles. These chemicals are extremely devestating to the CNS systems of reptiles. They also are a residual substance that can remain active on a surface for an extended period of time.
There is an antidote for exsposure, but depending on the amount of contact and lenght of time there will almost certainly be motor skill dysfunction in any of the animals that survive. It is very heart breaking to watch. Good luck.

Jeff

"inorganic phosphates" So is this the stuff they use in flea bombs and powders and collars. Reason I ask is Chrissy told me of a lizard coming in direct contact with a cat collar and died.
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2.3.0 ball python (gondor, aragorn, arwen,`eowyn)
1.0.0 100% het pied (frodo)
1.0.0 Blond Pastel
1.1.0 columbian boa (squiggles)
1.0.0 rat snake (alabastered)
1.1.0 corn snake (baby)
0.1.0 Chuckwalla (Jamie)
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
2.0.0 Quaker parrot (Woody)(Liam)
1.0.0 Landseer Newfoundland (Mac/Newfy)
0.0.5 whites tree frog (trevor, kirmet)
0.0.5 pacific green tree frogs
3.2.0 cats (rockie, bs, brownie, lerrado, kole)
1.3.0 kids (dilyen, dakota, chyanne, sierra)
Brian n Chrissy

"snakes are kind of like potato chips, you cant have just one"

Whatever it is, it looks like a horrid, painful death....

Yes, different types of pesticides fall in to this catagory, including a product sold under the name of "Vapon No Pest". I have seen this recomended as a way of getting rid of mites. If reptiles come in physical contact with it they will die. I had several snakes come in contact with a product named Adams Flea-off that I would spray on my dogs.
Two boas (Red-tail & Argentine Rainbow) both died, also three Indian pythons (2 confirmed by a vet and 1 possible) where treated and survided. Two of the three survivers had varrying degrees of motor skill dysfunction ( tremmers, inability to shed, and extreme inaccuracy at striking prey). The third had no ill effects what so ever.
I hate even bringing this up (painful memories), but it can not be stressed enough to use EXTREME caution with pesticides associated with other pets (flea & tick products).

Jeff

Thank you that is a good amount of info and somthing for everyone to learn here. Because like me I know a lot of you have the furry pets as well as reptiles. And I am sorry you two lost your snakes for me to learn this leason.
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2.3.0 ball python (gondor, aragorn, arwen,`eowyn)
1.0.0 100% het pied (frodo)
1.0.0 Blond Pastel
1.1.0 columbian boa (squiggles)
1.0.0 rat snake (alabastered)
1.1.0 corn snake (baby)
0.1.0 Chuckwalla (Jamie)
0.0.1 Bearded Dragon
2.0.0 Quaker parrot (Woody)(Liam)
1.0.0 Landseer Newfoundland (Mac/Newfy)
0.0.5 whites tree frog (trevor, kirmet)
0.0.5 pacific green tree frogs
3.2.0 cats (rockie, bs, brownie, lerrado, kole)
1.3.0 kids (dilyen, dakota, chyanne, sierra)
Brian n Chrissy

"snakes are kind of like potato chips, you cant have just one"

I was unable to find anything on google (the first couple pages, anyway) about INorganic phosphates and their effects on reptiles, using the search criteria "inorganic phosphates reptiles" and a couple variations.

Were you able to find actual articles about the subject when you googled it? If so, who were the articles by?

I'm curious because if flea products have the potential to do this I would like to put this information up at work (I work at a petstore) so that other employees can make sure customers purchasing reptiles know about this. However, I can only do so if I find actual articles by reputable authors. My assistant manager scorns my use of the internet as a resource so when I find information like this online, I need to be thorough.

If you could either link the article(s) you read or let me know where you got your information, that'd be really really great. Thanks!

~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

Jenny,

Sorry about this, but the term I used was in correct it is actually organophosphates not inorganicphosphates as I stated before. Its been almost twenty years ago since this incident occurred. Also the traded name of the active ingredient in the No Pest Strips is Vapona. Do a search for these and I am sure you can find more then enough info. if you find an article that you think is most reliable please post a link so that all might be informed.

Jeff

I am newbie & have zero advice for anyone, lol, but I just wanted to say how sorry I am for your loss.

I am absolutely horrible about dealing with the death of *any* type of pet, & I know you must still be in a fog. Thank you for posting, so when u learn the cause, we can at least learn from your mistake.

With sympathy....

Heat

Thank you.

I have kept snakes for over thirty years, and have never had anything like this happen. I've lost snakes. Yes, it happens. And it's always distressing. But never like this. It's like a wave of death sweeping through my home, and me standing in the middle of it, helpless to do anything. Knowing I have screwed up bad, but not knowing where.

The one corn died, and I opted for euthaization for the other.

The worst part of it has not nesicarilly the snakes being dead. It's seeing them twisting in pain. I am still in a fog over. And I am paranoid as hell, standing over all my other snakes thinking, "Oh my god! Did his head just wobble?? Why isn't that one moving?? Why is that one moving??"

So far, everybody else seems OK. I have some good leads on answers. I hope I get them, and that I never go through this again, and that nobody else has to either.

Dude, I feel ya. And I wouldn't want to be in your shoes right now either.

A little paranoia is completely normal & to be expected. It will cool down in a week or so. At least the tests should help shed some light on the cause. I watched a snake die in agony once & it was just plain horrible & something I wish I could forget.

*e-hug*
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

Awwww.........thank'y.

I am so sorry all this has happened to you and so suddenly to your animals. Thank you so much for passing the information along to all of us. I know it's horribly hard to deal with the loss of one animal, much less as many as you've lost in the last week. I sincerely wish you all the best of health with the remaining pets you have. You're in my thoughts.

Izora