Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What is the consensus? Are they intergrades or a separate subspeicies? From what I've read in books, they seem to be intergrades, but I believe I read on the forum that they are not.

I find them attractive and if they are intergrades, am considering crossing one with my WC albino yellow male. What do purity buffs think of that? note: I did acquire a couple WC normal yellows from the same area my male was collected from.

Thanks!

All Pantherophis obsoletus can be considered intergrades to some degree. Pantherophis obsoletus is no longer regarded as polytypical species by many (if not most) taxonomists. So the Gulf Hammock Ratsnakes is just as valid as a Yellow Ratsnake, when refered to as geografical variant.

The subspecies "williamsi" was retired in the early '70s.
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Your Amel Yellow doesn't seem to have much yellow on it. Can you post a pic of the normal Yellows that you found near the amel capture sight?
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Regards, Bill McGighan

Hi, Bill, and thanks for the response. I myself didn't collect any of my snakes, but should be able to get photos this upcoming weekend.

A Gulf Hammock Rat Snake looks like a Gray Rat Snake what also has a stripe pattern like a Yellow, Everglages, or Bairds rat Snake.

Crossing your Yellow with a Gulf Hammock, what is the point? If you want to produce more snakes that look like your Yellow, you are first going to have to cross your male with another eastern Yellow, and then cross the your male to some of that crosses offspring.

I think that if you take a few seconds and look at prices for Yellow or Gray Rat, you will see that they don't sell for much. Intergrades (and this is using the term very loosly) don't seem to sell at all.

BTW, Gulf Hammock Rat Snakes are a stable morph of the Gray Rat Snake. You will not get a snakes that look like Gulf Hammock Rat Snake by just crossing an eastern Gray Rat with an eastern Yellow Rat.

"What do purity buffs think of that?" I can't speak for all purity buffs, but I can speak for myself. You have come up with a stupid idea. Don't breed a bunch of snakes that you will have a hard time selling.

Gulf Hammock Rat Snake

I appreciate your response, albeit not the condescending tone. As I initially stated, I have read conflicting information as to what a Gulf Hammock Rat Snake was, and was hoping to clarify that here. So thank you for definitively clearing that up.

You ask, "Crossing your Yellow with a Gulf Hammock, what is the point? If you want to produce more snakes that look like your Yellow, you are first going to have to cross your male with another eastern Yellow, and then cross the your male to some of that crosses offspring."

My point would be to introduce the amel gene into the nice patterns I have observed in the Gulf Hammock, given they were a natural intergrade, as certain texts had me believe. I've read enough to know how to get more that look like mine; thanks for the refresher course, though.

And, finally, you were so wise to offer, "You have come up with a stupid idea. Don't breed a bunch of snakes that you will have a hard time selling."

Thanks.

Your albino specimen is WC, isn't it? So why don't you try to find a mate from the same locale? That would add even more value to it's offspring.

I you really have to breed it to another geographical race, then breed it to something colorful, like an Everglades or Deckert's.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.