Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My little hog absolutely loves those aquatic african dwarf frogs you can get at aquarium shops....I put one in his large water dish and he gobbles it! He eats pinkies only sporadically so I thought hey, if he likes frogs and will eat regularly on them, I don't miud spending a little extra money. I could always just catch local wood frogs and firebelly toads for him too, easy, once the weather warms up. Is this a bad idea? It is a younge western hognose.

Feeding with WC prey, is in my opinion, not a very good idea. The risk of disease, worm, paracites etc. is to high, considering that, hogs normally are willingly feeding on f/t mice.

If you do it, be prepared for some medical costs, and send feeces samples to the vet for analasys, on af regurla basis.

Just my opinion
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Best regards

Mark

Yeah, that is very true, feeding the WC frogs I can see might be a problem...but what about store african dwarf frogs and firebellies? Many of those are CBB, unless I am mistaken?

I am only really considering this because he is not a great pinky eater, even when they have been scented with frog, toads, lizard, etc.

He never will be a great pinky eater if you supplement with frogs. I did the frog thing....and ended up loosing all four of my Easterns to a viral agent introduced through the frogs. CBB does not mean parasite free, especially for an animal that feeds on insects. I would not do it. Unless you are willing to do fecals every 3 to 4 mths, and then treat for parasites if they are found. Plus, you should be very careful feeding non native frogs/toads because some carry toxins that would kill a hoggie. IMHO...stick with the pinks.
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Jenea
Guardian Reptiles

"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

Kenneth?

I agree with what the others have posted, the only benefit to feeding your hognose frogs is your personal satisfaction when he eats. There are no benefits to feeding frogs despite what most people will say, hognoses can do fine on a diet of exclusively mice.

I don't really see that much of a difference between wild caught frogs and the pet store frogs. While caught frogs could potentially be "cleaner", but they are still susceptible to bioaccumulation of toxins and transmitting parasites/diseases. The pet store frogs are probably slightly worse since they have undoubtedly experienced less than ideal conditions in route to the pet store. They may have suffered temperature extremes, poor water quality and exposure to other diseased/dead animals. Keep in mind that the global transportation of Xenopus (African clawed frogs) has been implicated as the vehicle for the spread of the chytrid fungus that is currently responsible for the worldwide decline of amphibian species. Hmm, if pet store frogs are capable of killing wild populations of animals they never directly come in contact with, what will happen when your pet eats them? Nevertheless, I consider using wild caught frogs the worse of two evils, removing wild animals to feed a pet when there're suitable alternatives is one of the most ignorant activities I can think of.

ok, so there is some information for you to digest. What do you do now? Your hognose WILL NOT starve itself to death in the presence of suitable food items. Therefore, abstain from the treats (frogs) and only provide pinkies. With enough time, your Western WILL gulped down mice with no problem. That's a promise. However, you may want to get your hognoses tested for parasites, since I would say he's got a 99% chance of having them.
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Virginia Herping
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VaHS
Virginia Herpetological Society online store
http://www.cafepress.com/vaherpsociety

"The irrational fear of snakes is the only excuse a grown man has... to act like a complete sissy" - Colchicine

Hey

Thanks for the advice, guys. I had only fed one or two frogs but wanted to get some more experienced opinions. Gave the boy a brained pinky today and he seemed to like that. Sorry if I caused any offense....I was just trying to think of what would be the most natural thing for him to eat. I guess sometimes the "most natural" thing isn't always the safest, aye? Thanks again.

Hi,

Are you familiar with the technique of "slitting" mice? (You make 1-4 horizontal snips down the mouse's back and feed as usual.) I started doing this to promote faster digestion with my snakes after reading a study comparing growth rates of snakes fed on slit ve un-slit mice. Coincidentally, this happened:

Adult corn, had been a perfect FT feeder for a year, then went off feed for 6 weeks, then re-started but would only eat fresh-killed, and took 2-4 hours to finally eat, started eating immediately, and now has successfully eaten two meals of FT.

30g Cali King, reliable FT eater who had started skipping a couple, eating a couple, skipping a couple, went back to eating two FT immediately with no refusals since.

15g Milk, always an aggressive eater of FT, went berserk, rolled out of feeding container in viv, rolled about the viv, gathering aspen flakes on her damp mouse, was removed by me in the process of constricting, washed under the faucet, shreds of aspen picked out of her mouth, and returned to her deli cup, and the lid closed, all while she kept madly constricting and swallowing.

30g Tri Hog, reliable aggressive feeder, got so excited by the scent he first bit himself, realized the mistake, grabbed the mouse by the belly and carried it about his feeding container before settling in to do his 15 minute envenomation thing.

So _maybe_ slitting your mice might encourage your Western to feed a bit more avidly.

Nanci
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*****
0.0.1 Normal Corn, 0.0.1 Cali King 0.1 Nelson's Milk
0.1 Tricolor Hog, 0.0.1 Eastern Hog, 1.0 Eastern Box Turtle
0.0.2 Desert Torts, 2.0 Feral Pigeons

> I guess sometimes the "most natural" thing isn't always the >safest, aye?

I frequently hear the "natural" argument anytime mice and easterns come up. There is NOTHING natural about 4 glass walls and a heat lamp, do you really hope to compensate by feeding what you perceive as a natural food? It's nice to keep in mind what they do in the wild, certainly, but to selectively apply natural habits to your pet is illogical.

PS- This is not directed at you, just in general.
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Virginia Herping
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VaHS
Virginia Herpetological Society online store
http://www.cafepress.com/vaherpsociety

"The irrational fear of snakes is the only excuse a grown man has... to act like a complete sissy" - Colchicine

Even the largest cage is unnaturally tiny. So any parasite with a direct life cycle can quickly escalate from low levels (that might be tolerable to a snake in nature) to an enormous load in captivity. So introduction of of those parasites from prey should certainly be avoided if at all possible.

Nature isn't always kind either. Last night at the Suncoast Herp Club I heard a talk/slide show by a biologist about a twelve year field study that tracked a large number of individual snakes (not hogs). Their data indicated a mortality rate of 50% per year, and that was for a sit-and-wait predator.
Lindsay Pike
www.hognose.com

the dwarf frogs are not the same as african clawed frogs, just so everyone is aware.