Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello All,

I have a 2 year old male sav that is constipated. All of his conditions are proper, 24/7 red basking 120-140, large tub of water, great humidity, and his substrate is top soil. He eats all whole food items with an occational egg. I have had him since he was one month old and he has never has this problem before. I soak him once a week. I have been soaking him and massaging his beel daily and nothing has happened. Can anyone help me? Thank you very much.

It sounds like an impaction, but seems unlikely with a soil substrate. Is there anything he could have ingested? Take him to a good vet and have a once over.

There is nothing other then his top soil. Could top soil block him up? He has been getting 4 adult hissing cock roaches once a week for a month now. They are new to his diet and are very hard shelled. I really don't think thats what could cause constipation though.

Not again(and again, and again)

Please forgive me. But I cannot believe what I read.

You mention, you have a problem, then you mention you have everything right. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Those two things exactly reflect eachother. They are equals. If you have everything right, then you will not have problems. Its all that very simple. If something is wrong, then your husbandry is wrong. I do not care what caresheet or what person told you what.

I get confused so easily, I have as much successful experience as anyone, Yet, I never, ever, have all things RIGHT. That makes me feel so bad, as I have been trying for years, very very hard, and I still have things off. Yet, you a newbie, has it right. Sorry for the rant, but I feel really dumb.

Ok, what makes you think your monitor is constipated???????? And why on earth are you trying to force it out???? If your monitor is eating, its fine(thats my bet, but I am not all that smart) I do know, monitors are very smart about those things. Even if a female has eggs in her, she knows what size food to eat, and what size food to NOT eat. Or if they are sick(plugged up, to not eat) If your monitor has stopped feeding, there may be a problem. Lets start there.

Instead of explaining how you have everything right, try explaining what you think is wrong. Please, think about this, caresheets are only a guide. What is actually right is directly taken from the progress of your monitor.

I think that he is constipated because he has not had a BM in several weeks. He has always gone to the bathroom at least once a week. Usually every other day. And when he is soaked he will go even if he just went an hour before. Soaking will stimulate most animals to have a BM, even humans. His belly his HUGE and firm. And he is tender when pressed on. I work with 5 vets and I am going to listen to what they have to say. But I also want advice from "monitor experts". The vets have told me reasons, other than husbandry, that can cause constipation. I would like to know what "monitor experts" do when they have a constipated monitor. You can prevent an animal from being constipated, but what do you do when you have one that is? And please don't make assumptions with me, I know care sheets are just a guide, that is why I visit this forum. Thank you.

...a two year old monitor shouldnt just be eating roaches...just my opinion,my 2 year old eats rats,chicks,and an occasional roach...i could be wrong but maybe thats were your problem lies...

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0.1 c.b.97' 9' 60 lb. common boa "scarlet"
1.0 c.b.02' 6' 15 lb. "hi pink" common boa "maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 17" firebelly x pastel boa "betty boa"
2 savannah monitors Ozzy & Uggy

1.0 everglades x yellow ratsnake c.b. 04' 4' "pooh"
1.0 c.b.06' redear slider "dweezil"
1.0 c.b.04' emorys ratsnake "zeus"
1.0 Snow Corn "Snowcone"(say it slowly...yes cheesy i know)

"...does it bite?"

No, he gets rats, mice, mealworms, and an occasional fertile/raw egg.

about assumptions, if thats all you have to go by, then what else would you have me do. Its your task to provide useable information, not mine to somehow guess. So all I can do is assume your like the ten thousand others that do/say the exact same things you said, So forgive me.

I am still trying to help(theres something to be said for that), even if its more painful then ramming my head in a giant jumping cholla.

Monitors can eat sticks, and feathers and fur and pass them without problem. WHEN HEALTHY. If(you say it is) your monitor is constipated, then you caused it to happen. From what you said, you may still have to much air movement. Hot basking spots without question, create lots and lots of air movement, if the air can escape, then it causes rapid dehydration. It will not matter if the monitor has all the drinking water in the world, it will still dehydrate. Remember, I do not have your animal in hand, so I can only GUESS. But this is most common with newbie keepers.

Also, without question, there is a distint relation with winter and these types of problems. In winter, our houses have much dryer air then in summer(only you know if that applies to you).

What is very funny to me is, the turtle folks understand that air conditioning in a house causes lots of problems with WATER TURTLES, and they recomend, keeping and eye on your WATER turtles. They recomend, closing the tanks(put lids on them) because dry air causes WATER turtles dehydration problems.

Yet monitor folks do not have the foggist idea. Pardon my ranting, like I said, I am only a dumb monitor keeper.

So, I will keep assuming, as long as folks keep on having problems that I somehow cannot cause to happen. Yup, I have never had a constipated monitor. So my education is from reading about others having that problem, and occasionally helping them. I have kept an average of over 200 monitors(at any given time) over a 16 year period, so I would think I should have experienced it, but sadly(happily) I haven't. Cheers

No he doesn't have screen lid. His substrate is moist. How long is too long without a BM for YOU to consider him constipated? If you owned an adult sav, how often/much would you feed it?

I cannot answer your question about how much to feed. They are reptiles and as such are totally dependant on their conditions.

Is your monitor expending energy, that is, growing, producing, or even doing lots of exercise? If so, they can eat several times a day when young and everyday when adults. Is it a male or female. Old males do not need to eat much. As little as once a week. During the winter an old male male feed every couple of weeks. So its very hard to say.

Its my opinion and its really only an opinion. That most captives are mismanaged. That is, most eat way do much and do far to little with what they eat. I think this leads to trouble.

If a monitor is growing quickly and/or reproducing, it can eat all it wants.

All the above is based on a good temperature range. If that range or the ability to use that range is off. All bets are off.

You mentioned moist substrate. As far as I can tell, all monitors hate moist substrate. They use humidity, not moisture. There are a few exceptions, like dums. They like to wallow in muck.

I think a very important thing to understanding reptiles is, humidity verses moisture. Most reptiles like to be dry and seek being dry, but do not want to dry out. They keep from drying out by seeking humidity, not moisture. Again, there are exceptions, buy Savs are not one of them. In nature, if monitors get wet, their burrows and such, the monitors quickly seek dry areas and to dry off.

I have to say at this point, if you feel your monitors is feeling tenderness when touched, take it to a vet. While you may think its constipated, it could be that or worse.

Lastly, you ignore a very valid question I asked earlier in this thread. Is your monitor feeding???? Cheers

Yes, he still has an appetite.
To be more specific. His substrate is moist on the bottom layer and dry on the top layer.

"even if its more painful then ramming my head in a giant jumping cholla."

That's not funny.....still have nightmares.....

?
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0.1 c.b.97' 9'6" 62 lb. Colombian Boa "Scarlet"
1.0 c.b.02' 6' Pastel Colombian Boa(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 17" Firebelly x Pastel boa "Betty Boa"
1.0 wc 3' Savannah Monitor "Ozzy"
0.0.1 wc 1'Savannah Monitor "Uggy"
1.0 c.b. 04' 4' Everglades Yellow Ratsnake "Pooh"
1.0 c.b.? 5' Candycane Albino Corn "Oogie Boogie"
1.0 c.b. 05'2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 Oscar 10" "Jaws"
"...does it bite?"

It's a demon spawned cactus that looks like a teddy bear.

A few years back Frank and I went for stroll through the desert by his house, he warned me about these tall cactus that look like teddy bears (tall, fuzzy, droopy arms that are divided into balls)amongst the 500,000 potential other dangers in the desert. An hour or so into our hike Frank tells me to look under this rock at a tortoise or some such thing, so I bend over to look and WHAM! searing pain in my butt. Now my first reaction is of course to reach around and grab whatever is in my butt, WHAM!, searing pain in my right hand. Of course I then use my left hand to grab the thing that is causing pain in my right hand....you guesed it WHAM!, searing pain in my left hand. You see when you get close to one of these cacti the hanging branch drifts over to your body (static electricity or something) and when they touch you the ball of spines breaks off the plant and stay attached to your body.

Needless to say at this point Frank is rolling around on the desert floor about to bust his gut laughing and I'm dancing around the desert looking like a peyote chewing Native American as I'm trying to get this ball of spines detached from my body.

So when I finally stop doing the dance of many spines, I have spines in my butt, leg, and both hands and the ball of spines is still attached to my left hand. Now I've been stuck by cactus prior to this, but never spines like these. These spines were over an inch long and must have been barbed, Fortunately, Frank had a leatherman with him and was able to use the pliers to extract the spines.

Much beer and tequila was consumed at the Mexican place that night.

...
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0.1 c.b.97' 9'6" 62 lb. Colombian Boa "Scarlet"
1.0 c.b.02' 6' Pastel Colombian Boa(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 17" Firebelly x Pastel boa "Betty Boa"
1.0 wc 3' Savannah Monitor "Ozzy"
0.0.1 wc 1'Savannah Monitor "Uggy"
1.0 c.b. 04' 4' Everglades Yellow Ratsnake "Pooh"
1.0 c.b.? 5' Candycane Albino Corn "Oogie Boogie"
1.0 c.b. 05'2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 Oscar 10" "Jaws"
"...does it bite?"

i suppose we should all bow down to FR since he is such aknowledgable god. in my opinion a quack who is aknow it all and thinks he is superior to all so must make sure we all know how great he is. sounds like an A** to me!!!
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GOOSEBALLS

lamina1982@hotmail.com

grow up.

hey Frank, looks like you have a stalker : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

That you do not have the brains to even be creative.

If you look down a few posts, you will see the same thing you just said. Only it was to Robyn for trying to help someone else.

Its so very sad, we get called names for trying to help(however poor my attempts are)

But none of that changes your mistakes. Those meds are to be administered by qualified people. In most cases, trained vets.

I do not think its out of line to think a person whos never heard of the meds, has never worked with them before, as not qualified.

I have to ask, do you hate Vets, I mean you say your a vet tech, yet, you refuse to recomend taking the monitor to a Vet. HOW VERY ODD.

Your attacking me only brings out the real truth, and that truth is all about you. Cheers

i dont see how you keep saying i just told him to give meds. i told him to give that info to vet. its clearly written in my first post. as his vet knew nothing i figured it would help his vet out with dosages. so dont see how you keep saying i told him to just give meds. I SAID HE WOULD EVEN HAVE TO GET THE MEDS FROM HIS VET.
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GOOSEBALLS

lamina1982@hotmail.com

Not just the boat, but the entire armada(fleet of boats)

One, there is no reason to treat this animal for parasites. It does not exhibit any symtoms of a parasite overload.

Two, before you treat something, it should be determined it needs treatment.

Three, if a Vet sees the animals and recomends a partcular treatment. You offered a bunch, all for different types of parasites and infections, which one should they use????????

Four, Do not give medical advice your not qualified to give. I am positive the vets you work for, will tell you the same.

As a keeper with lots of experience with both captive and wild caught monitors. I have seen far more damage for the treatments of parasites, then from the parasites themselves.

To make that clear, I have nothing against qualified personal treating monitors for parasites. But I have a lot against the casual keeper/shopkeeper/importer, doing this treatment.

Its my bet, the damage is from poor treatment(if a little is good, more is better) and or, the muliple treatments. That is, wildcaught monitors are oftened treated many times before the consumer gets them. They may be treated by the exporter, then the importer, then the jobber, then a shop, the by the keeper. Sir, those animals are toast.

The problem is, private folks do not provide a medical record. Vets do. Vets keep these records because they are important for any further treatment of an individual. In many cases, the above double or triple the treatments.

So yes, I do not think you should be offering treatments(you indeed offered the dosages) If you HAD A BRAIN, you would know better. Well you have a brain, use it. Its simply not a wise practice to treat animals for things they do not need.

Cheers and more cheers

Should I just keep feeding him and see what happens? It does not feel like any of his organs are swollen. I fed him a small adult rat that I injected with 40mL of Lactated Ringers Solution last night, as per vet. Thanks.

LR is an intravenous solution to treat dehydration. Seems to me that your vet thinks it's dehydrated which means your set up isn't perfect.

The vets said that he is not dehydrated but the oral LRS might help loosen up the stool if he is constipated.

Normally at this time I will leave you to whatever outcome will occur. Its now your problem.

I will say, monitors have a natural behavior and a special organ to hold feces and extract nearly all remaining moisture. This is done what the monitor is feeling a water deficent. Normally monitors can pass fecal manner from 7 hours to several days.

As mentioned already, if your monitor is feeding, its most likely fine. Good luck

Thanks

Would 140 temp cause him to deficate less compared to 90-110 temp?

If they get their body temps where they need it- yes, there will be less. If temps are low, you could find bone and undigested material. When temps are good, it's mostly hair.

Thank you.

I've had experience with a lot of different reptiles, as well as ferrets, sugar gliders, various mammals, and even going from personal experience...
If the monitor were impacted/constipated, it would have a diminished apetite.
From what I've seen on here, FR knows what he's talking about. I don't post often, but this is common sense.
I'd say get the Monitor to the vet ASAP for a close examination of what's really going on in his belly, and being as you said you work with 5 vets it should be a very simple task. As a matter of fact, if you work with 5 vets I'm not sure why you haven't done it and posted an update by now.

As per the bickering in this thread, I understand why FR gets frustrated when people come on here constantly and say they've got perfect conditions and are having problems and a resident advice person on this forum it would get old after a while. As he said, he's been keeping monitors for 16 years and still doesn't have perfect conditions.
I've even taken some of his advice tonight and decreased the air flow in my enclosure.

The best thing to do is to come in and be completely honest. Even if you've got a Blackthroat in a 10g, as long as you're willing to learn and admit mistakes, people will be more than happy to give you advice.
For these creatures it seems to be a case of "Here's a basic rule..." and then the rest depends on your individual monitor.

I had a similar problem with my ackie. It was probably due to having too much of the top open (ie the part that was under the heat lamp,). This is my guess b/c the problem went away as soon as I closed the top completely. You could also try putting in a plastic container with moist dirt and moss and keeping it damp on a daily basis. The monitor may or may not use the dirt container (dumeril did, ackie never does) but it does give another option. In defense of FR, Robyn and other experienced keepers here, this is something to consider: When you start out asking for a solution to a problem or a comprehensive caresheet, you ask too much of even an expert. They can tell you what to doand what's wrong with husbandry til the cows come home and it won't matter. Unless you are with them to see what they are doing, you're on your own. It is invaluable to you as a keeper to go through problems like this and figure them out in your own experience. You'll always be able to apply it in your husbandry from that point on. It's like the giving a man a fish vs teaching him to fish proverb. I've had husbandry issues and will undoubtedly have more in the future, but every time I am persistent enough to figure one out it build my confidence when I have to address the next one.