Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am guilty of being a "grammar nazi" at times. The issue is based upon the fact that I, like others, do not want outsiders coming in, looking around, and thinking that hot-keepers are stupid and need to be "looked after," or protected from ourselves, or others from us.

However, in a bit of analysis and realization, I have had to admit the following;

Knowledge and intelligence do not automatically result in "common sense."

There are some people out there who can't read or write at better than a fifth grade level that have plenty of common sense while, in contrast, there are plenty of college graduates who can/will do plenty of amazingly stupid things.

That being said, I have tried to ignore the horrible spelling and grammar mistakes that others make and remember that, just because someone has a mastery of the English language, it doesn't mean that they will be the safest handler of hots the world has ever seen. Conversely, someone who will publicly post the word "venemous" might still be able to teach me a thing or two about venomous reptile husbandry...even if they can't spell it.

However, if I am willing to meet some of you butchers of grammar and spelling halfway and give you the benefit of the doubt, how about taking a couple of seconds to type posts into MS Word (or anything with spell-check) and then copy-and-paste them into your post (just as I did with this one) so that we don't appear to be populated by so many high school dropouts.

I know…I already hear the excuse coming…”I can spell…I just get in a hurry.” or “No one pays attention to it.” or “No one cares about that.” or “I can spell, I just can’t type.” Or…

Venomous keepers are already watched closely. My actions, interactions, attitude, and even my mistakes, can reflect on all of you. If I screw up and get tagged and hospitalized, can this not affect you and your hobby? If I posted “Me and my friend Bubba takes REEL good care of all of are venemous snakes. We gots em in garbaj bags and we keep em tide up reel tight.” Wouldn’t you all cringe and hope no one was reading that and judging all of us by it? Well, the same goes for a 50 word post that has three grammatical errors and five misspelled words.

So, like I said, I’m willing to give the poor writers the benefit of the doubt. You may all be awesome reptile keepers with outstanding skills and strict adherence to proper handling protocols. Now how about you, in turn, make just a bit more effort to make sure we all appear as educated and intelligent as possible to the outside world. You never know what activist, conservationist, or politician may be reading these posts and judging us all by them. Unfortunately, those who make the rules and create policy are EXACTLY the ones who will notice every gramatical and spelling error...and judge you by it.

... and let's face it, poor spelling and grammar are not hard to fix: just type your post in MS Word, spell and grammar check it, and then copy and paste it into the forum message box. It adds 20 seconds to the time taken to post, but buys you immeasurably more respect and esteem.

Cheers,

WW
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WW Home

I understand your complaint but let me tell you the perspective from one who does not use spell check before posting.

For those who are familar with my post know I suck at spelling. I admit it and should run post through spell check but due to my schedual and the fact that I only post from work, where I am always typing like mad to get a point across before I get called away to do somthing, well, 20 seconds is alot of time!

20 seconds is also a gross underestimate of the time it takes. Ya see, you I and definately WW are used to the PC, used to typing and useing it in a profesional mannor. For me I use the program Autocad for most of my work. For you guys im sure its different but it is evident that you are well versed with computers.

On the other hand many folks here do not employ the PC in day to day use, may not even have one at home and simply use it to come here and converse about snakes. To somone with such little PC time, going to word and spell checking could be as much as 10 mins! I know, its hard to belive but I have met some extreamly bright people who had the worst time utilizeing even the most simplistic computer application.

Grammar and more importantly spelling by itself is definately not an indicator of intelligence and maturity. Though I understand your point very well you cant read somones post and chalk them up as an idiot for mispelled words and lack of proper punctuation. The content is whats most important.

Some of the least qualified people I have ever met on these forums were grammar goo roos who thought since they could write so well that they must be good enough to handle dangerous snakes and disregarded opinions from those who could not spell as well as they. People with somtimes 20 odd years experince keeping these animals!!! I could name names but I will pass so as not to call out current forum members, some of which have gained my respect but definately didnt start out with it and some that I still cant stand.

Anyway, grammar and punctuation are not the indicator of an inteligent well versed keeper. Some of the best keepers I have ever met would not post on these forums because they feared getting run out because they couldnt type worth a damn.

As for outside opinions, well, I think some of the forums elite members cover this very well. You think Joe bob coming here asking about them chunkheads is a giving us a bad rap? What happens when a post like that is replied too? You get 20 some odd forum experts giveing advise and and makeing sure their opinions are shared for the sake of the hobby and the prespective keeper in question. I think that gives a very good public opinion. After all this is na public forum so people will obviously come here with questions even if they are somtimes brainless ones.

Again, I understand your rant but as long as the content is relavant I dont see it being as big of an issue.

Well, my 2 cents for what its worth.

Okay...so you've taken the time to write a seven paragraph post to agree with what I said in two sentences;

"However, in a bit of analysis and realization, I have had to admit the following;

Knowledge and intelligence do not automatically result in "common sense." "

Now, the part I DON'T get is how you can take all the time to do that, but can't take the extra few seconds...yes, seconds, to slow down a bit so that you don't mistype, maybe reread it before you submit it, and maybe even spell-check it.

The most poignant point I tried to make was this: “You never know what activist, conservationist, or politician may be reading these posts and judging us all by them. Unfortunately, those who make the rules and create policy are EXACTLY the ones who will notice every grammatical and spelling error...and judge you by it.”

Most politicians are college graduates. That goes for your local mayor and city council members (those who pass city ordinances) to your Governor (those who pass state laws), to your senators, congressmen, and the President (those who pass federal laws). Now, factor in the knowledge that they all thrive on the fears and desires of the general (uninformed) public. They could not care less if the general public’s fear of something is irrational or illogical. They don’t want intelligent, informed constituents anyway. They want mindless sheep because sheep are easier to control.

But alas…I digress…

The point is, if the masses scream “Save us from the killer snakes!” They will make no effort to bring in experts to calm and educate them. Instead they will use that fear to bolster their strength at the polls. If voting is around the corner you will see all candidates, as well as the incumbent, start rallying to pass laws to protect their voters from these killer snakes.

All they want are votes. Even if the politician in the above scenario has nothing against snakes, he isn’t running for herpetologist. He’s running for office. Ergo, he will make whatever moves necessary, and support or oppose whatever issues he must, to win their votes.

So, in reviewing your post, it is worth the effort to post seven paragraphs on why spelling and grammar just aren’t important, but it is not worth the commitment to keeping the future of our hobby (and some peoples’ livelihood) safe and secure by taking the time to type it in another program rather than just on the forum, then highlight the text and click “copy” and then “paste?”

MWord spell checks on the fly. You don’t even have to do anything.

Or you can go here: www.spellcheck.net

Spellcheck.net...easy to remember and, if you can get to Kingsnake.com, you can get to spellcheck.net.

To highlight, right-click, and choose “copy” and “paste” takes six seconds if you do it all with the mouse. Being computer savvy and doing Ctrl A, Ctrl C, Ctrl V is a bit quicker, but not enough to mention.

In the end you have to be honest with yourself, as do most people who are on the same side of this debate as you are on forums across the Internet. It’s not about what’s important or not. It’s not whether you really feel that people notice or care. It’s not that you don’t believe that the slaughter of the English language by a group of individuals makes that group seem less intelligent.

The issue is that you didn’t feel like making the extra effort to be a better speller in school, and you don’t feel like making the extra effort now to compensate.

There are people out there who don’t feel like bathing, so they walk by and you gag from the smell. There are people who don’t feel like combing their hair, so they always look silly. There are people who don’t feel like taking proper care of their clothes, so they always look like they slept in them. There are people who don’t feel like brushing their teeth, so their breath is disgusting, they have nastiness on their teeth when the smile, and their teeth are rotting. ALL of these people are judged by this on a daily basis. They are fired form jobs, avoided by coworkers, and shunned by strangers.

If I don’t shower, and I stink, it’s likely I won’t notice someone else’s stench over my own. If you don’t think spelling and grammar are important on these forums, you aren’t going to think anything of it when others act likewise.

But you don’t make the laws my friend. Politicians do. Politicians with college educations (I don’t have one), politicians who can read, and write, and spell, and notice when people can’t/don’t, politicians who don’t care about right or wrong, but about public opinion. You know as well as I do that the general opinion, thanks to the Bible, Disney, old westerns, and most everything else, is that snakes are evil. The knee-jerk response by most is to kill a snake when they see it.

Main points:
• The general public doesn’t like snakes.
• Politicians will do whatever gets them votes and keeps them in office.
• Most politicians have college educations
• Activists will exploit any fault they can find, and any generalization they can make
• Activists will often make grandstand appeals to politicians to get laws passed

Now, here’s the scenario; Sensible Taxpayers Undermining People Imprisoning Deadly Snakes (S.T.U.P.I.D.S.) shows up at Mayor Dipstick’s office with 10,000 signatures on a demand for laws prohibiting private individuals from having venomous reptiles in their homes within the city limits. They have a list of websites, and some selected posts from people who claim to be very well-versed in the safe handling and keeping of venomous reptiles. Of course, every one of these "randomly-selected" posts is rife with spelling and grammatical errors. Naturally, being a politician, he is used to dealing in generalizations so,based upon this evidence, he presumes that all people keeping venomous snakes are morons. He also sees the signatures and is aware that people, in general, fear snakes. Therefore getting on board with this issue will make him more popular with the general public. Of course, it will enrage a few, but they are the minority. (Politicians care little about the minority)

So then all of the herpers in that city, as well as the rest of us, are tasked with trying to change their minds (much harder than making a first impression) and convincing them that were are intelligent and careful after they have decided we’re dangerous idiots.

Worse is when Mayor Dipstick finds himself speaking with other elected county and state officials and whispers "Hey...wanna know how to get a bunch of votes from women and sissies?"

No, I'm afraid you're mistaken my friend...this IS important. Perhaps the moderators could create a poll somewhere on this site and we can truly find out if the majority of people want you to pay a bit more attention, and be a little more interested in protecting our hobby?

#1) Im not your freind. Keep your sarcasim to your self.

#2) You seem to think that legislation of the keeping of dangerous reptiles will be saved by properly useing gramar in every post writtten on this site. Heres a News Flash, it dosent mean squat! They will pass law regardless of what is posted on these forums. These matters usualy start at a local level and eventualy move there way up the legislative ladder to the state. If your so concerned with it do what many have and go talk to local legislation to come up with proper permiting systems to assure only qualified canidates are able to house the animals. Otherwise take your whineing elsewhere.

You see, your missing the big picture. You know what the down fall of this hobby is? Its the fact that a 15 yr old (or an adult with a 15 year old mentality, even more frightening and common) can go to a reptile show and buy pretty much whatever they want. Or go to the many internet sites and have one shipped. Thats the problem.

Without dealers useing proper judgment and seeing past their own profit to the larger picture this problem will not be resolved. Take the idiot who got tagged by a Dendroaspis a few months back. He was a nit wit who took the advise of those whom knew more then him and threw it out the window. Because of the stubborness he was tagged, had the media brought into it and low and behold bad press, legislative push in his area and a bad rap to anyone in the hobby. Had the dealers (or private individual) who sold him the animals taken the time to quizz him sorta speak it would have been obvious he didnt anything about hots and the sell would have never happened. Instead he got several animals and you see what transpired.

So, Mr grammar Nazi, instead of nit picking an obvious personal annoyance or yours why dont you get off your cloaca and do somthing meaningfull about it? If you think this is meaningfull, well, I guess our opinions differ.

If we're thinking of the same nitwit who was bitten by his mamba, wasn't it already illegal in his area/state to keep venomous privately? I haven't heard much else about the situation, but are they now trying to do more things in response to his actions?
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

Sense i teech collage inglish, i agre. Spel beter, peeple.

1 for learning how to spell.
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Jason

ima geten lernd in this sifrn ana getn closna 2 perty gode at it. My spelling is getting better,Rob is always on the prowl for my mis use of the english language. I now keep a dictionary at my desk.I do love this forum and the people on it.So if I try others will also.

"The mind is like a parachute. It works best when it's open."

I don't think I'm smarter than everyone, or better, or anything else.

It's simply that I deal with this in other aspects of my life. Believe it or not I'm 44 and I do paintball for a living. This is yet another issue that is misunderstood by many, and feared by the ignorant. It has gotten better since I started playing two decades ago, but there are still uninformed people that think we're all warmongering, anti-government revolutionaries who are practicing to take over the country by force.

That, or they see the painted street signs, and hear accounts of paintball drive-bys, and think we’re all reckless idiots.

It’s the same thing; fighting public opinion that is, constantly undermined by the unthinking actions of others who don’t realize how much damage they can do.

Thanks for being open-minded and making efforts to improve. Admitting that you're not good at something isn't easy for everyone. Actually doing something about it is even less common.

The vast majority of people attending forums of ANY type recognize that people are often in a hurry and are not spell checking or use short hand IMO.

By profession I am an actuary and I see the same thing on our professional forums and that is a pretty strong group in terms of education and general intelligence.

I do agree that people could do a better job but to elevate the "problem" beyond a personal pet peeve to a fear that people will think we're inbred snake jugglers seems a bit of a stretch.

Good points though and while I don't share the same level of concern I agree with you on everything else.

"By profession I am an actuary and I see the same thing on our professional forums and that is a pretty strong group in terms of education and general intelligence."

I try not to be one of those anal-retentive people who debate every point, but there is a bit of a difference here.

The vast majority of the human race does not, as a whole, fear actuaries and want to kill them or get them far away from them. Although when my event insurance goes up I can't say I'm very fond of you guys.

But, in all seriousness, when you are a target group that people will take issue with based on their gut feelings, you have to be more careful than, say, the balloon-animal coalition.

As an actuary, I would think that you would see the inherent risk in presenting ourselves as less careful and intelligent, as opposed to presenting ourselves as intelligent and responsible.

It’s not a huge leap in logic to assume that one who takes other shortcuts in life, such as not editing their posts, might also take shortcuts in safety concerning themselves and others.

Just some thoughts…

I see what you are getting at, points taken.

In fairness, perhaps I'm just biased because I don't view snake keepers that way.

I do think that "image damage" due to post quality is tiny relative to stories about apartment complexes having to be emptied because the crack dealer in Apt. 3B had a cobra get loose and show up on the front lawn.

People getting killed by their snakes (see my thread about the string of fatalities in Ohio) or exotic snakes getting loose and "menacing" the public are 99.9% of the image problem.

Besides, the general public doesn't come here...they read the news stories that without exception report the crazy stuff.
You don't turn on the news and hear about the thousands who drove safely that day.

Best of luck. I do think the public is starting to come around in it's ability to discern the idiots from the pro's.

Wow you guys are very articulate in your points, dang I’m impressed. I would like to think you are being paranoid about wildlife officials cruising the venomous forums looking for leads for enforcement operations. I really think they have better things to do, and not enough resources to do them. I could be wrong, but I don’t see many W von Papineäu postings about people getting busted for keeping venomous without proper permits unless it is in relation to another event. Usually it’s a bite victim, a drug bust, an escape, etc. where they are probably required to bring in the local animal control officer and everything balloons from there. I think one of the main objectives of hot keepers would be to NOT be on the evening news. There are plenty of keepers who keep their interest to themselves and the neighbors, the coworkers, (and sometimes the wife’s parents) are not even aware. I think that’s the way it should be. Hot keepers would be a lot better off if people wouldn’t show off, brag, boast, get bit, grow pot, have escapes, fight dogs, and have domestic disturbances. There are probably a lot of really great people in positions of authority who could care less about your permits and your hobby as long as you can keep it off of their desks.

This great post deserves at least one reply.
I am in your camp of believing that a more common emotion than the FEAR OF WILD SNAKES is an indifference toward what I am keeping my house (if it is just a snake and not a threat to national security or the morals of our youth).

Thank you yoyoing, I thought it was a decent post too. I guess if you narrow the responses down to the people who aren’t showing off, bragging, boasting, getting bit, growing pot, having escapes, fighting dogs, and having domestic disturbances, that’s how many you are left with. A worse commentary on the venomous community than bad grammar...

"But, in all seriousness, when you are a target group that people will take issue with based on their gut feelings, you have to be more careful than, say, the balloon-animal coalition."

Actually, the "balloon-animal coalition" takes liability and education quite seriously. Read the link to see how the balloon industry has used education to reduce choking deaths that are surprisingly on the same order of magnitude as venomous snake bite deaths.

www.balloonhq.com/BalloonCouncil/facts.html

I agree with the points made. There have been many times that I have bit my tongue, and other times that I haven't. I have nothing against people who may not be educated to whatever level, and quite frankly don't really care. Much of the reptile husbandry I have learned hasn't been from my formal education, or even from those with degrees. What I have learned over the years has been from people of all walks of life who are genuinely interested in reptiles and have taken the time to seek information about their captives. When it comes to communicating this information, it looks much better when done in a professional manner regardless of level of education. When I see people post about snakes and don't know anything about them (including how to spell their common or scientific names) it tells me that this individual hasn't taken the time to research and absorb the information that they should have.

How can anyone argue that trying to spell is a bad thing? The key here is TRY. Always remember that we all make mistakes, but we should work at improving ourselves.

But for the love of all that slithers, please work on your use of common and scientific names. With all that the internet offers, it isn't that hard to learn some basic information using a search engine.

It's hard to help someone when they ask questions about a "green tree viper", when that could be any green, arboreal snake from any number of countries or continents. Even if the snake doesn't have a clear common name, it has a scientific name. There is no excuse for not knowing scientific names. I guarantee that the doctor at the hospital will have a tough time treating you if you tell him or her that you were bitten by your "green tree viper". And while you are learning the scientific names of your snakes, learn to spell them. "Tremarisaris albalabrus" isn't a valid name.

Finally, if you choose to follow nothing I or anyone else has said, please do this: ask the basic questions about husbandry BEFORE you buy the snake. Nothing looks more ignorant than posts that read: "Help, I just bought a Tremarisaris albalabrus and I don't know what it eats." It is completely irresponsible to buy a snake, especially a venomous one, and not know some basic husbandry information.

If anyone posted about Trimeresurus albolabris, I'm not trying to single you out, it's just an example. I also realize that The genus Trimeresurus is in flux right now and some experts recognize it as Cryptelytrops albolabris.

I agree with all the points that Bobby mentioned. Quite the discussion you stirred up here Kerry.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

I agree with that completely. I'll also add....

Not spelling correctly and using the wrong word are two different issues I have. Im actually willing to let a misspelling or two slide by, but for someone to explain that "there snake is not eating" when in fact "their snake is not eating" to me is just an ignorance of the language we speak. In my eyes, this is a reflection of their personality and how particular they are about things in their life. I don't believe this is 100%, but I think the majority rules.

Common OOPS words are

Are Our
Your You're
There Their They're
Too To
Of Off
Were Where

I can be a nazi about it, and actually have Mod rights on a reptile-unrelated forum and will go into other peoples posts and correct their spelling because it just bugs me. I try not to be an a-hole about it though.

Just take a few minutes to learn which word goes where please.

Before I posted this message, and the others I post, I hit PREVIEW Message and gave it a quick proof read to be sure I didn't goof up somewhere. It took me an additional 30 seconds. Thats no big deal. I am still human however.
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Tom

"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

While I'm slamming no one here, and certainly don't see myself as some holier-than-thou type, I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying.
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Venomous snakes---best hobby on earth!
Bill Huseth

I am not trying to defend any particular point but as a young one that has been typing as long as I can remember, the use of incorrect spelling or things like "u" or "u're" or "ttyl" is totally acceptable in alot of my crowd. I can see that it aggrivates some but remember some of us don't know much else than the computer before us and only use spell check when it counts for a grade. That doesn't make us less intelligent. I think some of it is acceptance in different generations. Ya'll should read some of our texts! That can take quite a bit to decipher what someone was attempting to say

In my opinion

"wer r u goin 2nite"

"movie"

"u 2?"

"yeh"

"c u there!"

is fine on IM or phone texting, but I hate seeing it on forums.

LOL and such I can deal with, as the biggest downfall of Internet communication is the lack of facial expressions and vocal inflections. These subtle things hold much sway with how statements are perceived when spoken.

A couple of LOLs and s and s do wonders to help. I have used the computer as a primary source of communication and promotion for over a decade. I still attempt to get it right on my own, and take the extra...oh...30 seconds to check long posts and emails in MS Word.

I have no kids. I never have. I still pay taxes and support the educational system. Too many kids graduate (or not) and can't spell to save their lives.

God! When did I become such a crotchety old man? LOL

"wer r u goin 2nite"

"movie"

"u 2?"

"yeh"

"c u there!"

Where are you going tonight?

To a movie.

You too?

Yeah.

Okay, see you there!

Probably takes a total of 10 extra seconds to type correctly. However, in real time, like instant messaging, that is an issue. When posting on a forum that ten seconds doesn't mean anything...it's just not wanting to hit those...oh...twenty-five extra keys?

It's like those old TV ads for the first "wide stick" deodorant. They would say "The wide stick covers more area in one stroke, so it saves you time." I figured if you are that crunched for time that you have to count the strokes when applying deodorant you have bigger problems with time management than with body odor. LOL

So, if a person's first language is not English they need to correct this fault? Sorry, while fun to discuss, I think forum posts are unrelated to potential reptile legislation.

I don't think that is who this post is pointed at. I think this post is about those that don't even try to do things correctly. Someone who speaks English as a secondary language is obviously trying. Posts from non-English speakers are usually fairly easy to pick out, and on those I don't hold anything against the individual for it. They're trying, and since English isn't their first language (and is a language that often doesn't make sense and has more exceptions than rules) I don't see it as unprofessional at all.

Actually I applaud those who take the time to become multilingual and learn other languages, and grammatical mistakes by such individuals would seem to be both apparent and excusable.

However, if you don’t live here you would, likely, not have a true appreciation for the sway that a bunch of ignorant people in large groups can have on legislation, or the levels a politician will stoop to in order to gain the popular vote.

I do live "here". I know exactly what you are typing about. I just don't think legislative decisions are going to be based on which "side" has the most articulate opinion forum. Check out the forums of the "winning side". Is their grammar better?

Still the same issue as with another reply...

The general populace isn't out to destroy the snake-haters or those who wish to leave every animal in its natural (albeit vanishing) habitat.

The majority of people fear snakes. The majority of people don't believe that we should have venomous snakes in our homes, in their neighborhoods.

If you are a god-fearing person that support all of the issues that the majority does you are damn near bulletproof. Few will mess with you because you agree with them…because you are “like” them…because you are “one of them.”

However, if you are a member of a "fringe" group in this country...
* Socialists
* Communists
* Atheists
* Satanists
* Hot snake keepers
* etc
you will be persecuted for your beliefs, the “system” will try and make you renounce your beliefs and give up the practicing of them, and anything that can be used against you WILL be used against you.

Freedoms in this country are whittled away at everyday. Some slowly, some not so slowly. Federal, state, and local governments are constantly working on limiting what we can do for our own enjoyment.

When is that last time you heard of a city or state REPEALING anti-reptile laws? Fireworks laws? How about laws restricting ANYTHING enjoyable?

I just believe in doing everything in my power to protect the freedoms I still have. That includes not providing ammo for “them” to fire at me with regard to taking away any more of my "privileges.

“Base on our research, many of them appear to be ignorant and uneducated” is a round I don’t want to see fired at us. The already have plenty of slanted figures and sensationalized stories thanks to the liberal media.

“Just because you’re paranoid, it doesn’t mean they AREN’T out to get you.”

But that is a different subject. Anyone can make the observation that being on a fringe is tenuous. I belong to almost a majority of the descriptions on your list. My intention is to decouple whether grammar is annoying or a threat.

On a scale of 0-100% my breakdown is:

Bad grammar on an opinion forum is annoying-80%.

The possibility of bad grammar on this or any opinion forum being a catalyst for legislative change -0%

What numbers would you place in these categories?

Now you are resorting to exaggeration and extremism to try and make a counterpoint.

Do I think that bad grammar on this or any opinion forum would ever a catalyst for legislative change?

No.

Do I think it could be used by those against us to support an argument that we are all ignorant and uneducated? Absolutely.

No different than the anti-gun activists claiming that gun-owners are all stupid rednecks, and that guns in the hands of such morons are a danger to society. They use this argument every day.

With that as an already established strategy being used by those who want to strip the rights of others, why would anti-snake people be any different?

If it works against those stupid people with dangerous things that could kill me, it will work against these stupid people with dangerous things that could kill me. Seems like sound logic on their part.

Of course...we could strive to make sure we look educated and intelligent and disarm this tactic...or go ahead and look like idiots and make sure they have all the weapons they can get in their arsenal against us.

To me…one less argument they can use against us is one less. I choose not to help them, and encourage others not to help them either.

I think this concern (which I did not introduce) is an exaggeration.

So let's add up the votes. Most people seem in favor of correct spelling and proper grammer (if English is your first language). Our English teachers would be proud. Let's use common and scientific names more correctly, as well.

For everyone else, is it really worth arguing over? I mean, are we really arguing that we shouldn't spell properly? Come on! Get over it people. Proof read your posts and move on with your lives!

But then again... this really is an informal medium for expressing ourselves. Should we really be so concerned with how well our posts are punctuated? Let's keep debating and turn this into a grammer forum!

Seriously, buy a dictionary. For those of you still in school - pay attention. Now lets talk about snakes.

And yes, I misspelled "grammar"... crap.

LOL!!!

But no one else had to point it out for you.

Go ahead...pat yourself on the back anyway.

Viperpaintball has a good point. I myself fit in to a group or two. Yet I am here for the love of snakes.This is a good topic and no one was singled out or put down.I hope we can soon move on to snakes . This is the Venomous Forum , not english 101 !! If every one will promise to make nice this could happen.

Just as smokers will ague until they're blue in the face (doesn’t take long) that they have the right to smoke everywhere and feed non-smokers second-hand poison…so will those who don’t feel like making an effort argue that they don’t have to.

I think I have inspired a bit of thought here, and (hopefully) encouraged a few people to look at the bigger picture.

I’ll resist the urge to debate it, and just move on, in the interest of not completely beating this dead horse to a bloody pulp.

Those who would get it got it.

Those who didn’t, likely, never will.

I’m ready to move on.

However, Archie, you could also just choose to scroll up and stop following the topic. It’s a (somewhat) free country …for the time being.

(Just ribbin ya with that last part)

I cant stop i might go blind. I love this it is the spice of life.

Peace!

You just made my day! That was too funny.
Thanks,
Jason
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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

The whole point was lost on many...

I am not a big enough dumbass to sit here and imagine a mayor, senator, or congressman browsing the Internet and, upon stumbling onto this site, exclaiming “OH MY GOD! THEY ARE USING YOUR INSTEAD OF YOU’RE! WE SHOULD EXECUTE THEM ALL!!!”

What I DID imagine is someone bringing the issue to their attention, and using the rampant poor literacy to SUPPORT the argument that many of us are too stupid to be responsible for such dangerous creatures.

Many of the responders to the original post want to argue that poor grammar/spelling alone will NOT make them come after us.

To those people; YOU ARE RIGHT. FOR ALL THAT IS HOLY AND GOOD IN THE WORLD, AND BY ALL THE SAINTS IN HEAVEN, YOU ARE RIGHT!

Then there are those who are arguing the fact that poor grammar/literacy does not automatically mean that the person is stupid or unskilled.

To those people; YOU ARE RIGHT TOO! FOR ALL THAT IS blah blah blah YOU ARE RIGHT!

Now, does poor grammar/spelling help make us look as intelligent as we are?

Um…no.

ButI give up.

Hookt on foniks werkd fer me

I did not contribute to the long thread above, but I agreed with you completely. Other forums actually have a spell check built into their system. And people still will not use it.

People will try and justify why it is alright to be lazy and think less in life. When you have only one line of communication to show your knowledge on the subject and your overall intelligence, it makes no sense to me why people would blatantly write at a middle school level...especially when trying to support such a controversial topic.

And, by the way, I feel using things like "..." are completely appropriate on a forum where setting a conversational tone is somewhat of a goal. Whereas, the use of middle school computer short hand ('cuz, forildo "for real though," das right, wuts, etc.) are not appropriate. Also, poor sentence structure to the point where it is difficult to read on the first attempt, not only makes you look less intelligent, but it is rude to your readers.

I welcome the grammar police. In the professional world, they are called copy editors. If someone is willing to do that job without pay, for the benefit if the forum...please do. Shoot, someone might even learn something that may help them sometime in life...job interview, grant proposal, school paper...

I guess that's a point I didn't even factor in.

If no one pays attention, why aren't books on reptiles (or anything else) just printed with all of teh errors?

It's because no one would take the writer of said literary work seriously if it were prited like that. He would have no credibility.

Therefore, based upon this; poor grammar/spelling undermine your credibility.

Why? Because it is easy to presume that the person with the poor skills is uneducated and ignorant.

EVERY book that is printed goes through editors first. EVERY ONE. PERIOD.

That's a heck of a good arguement. Thanls for pointing that out.

The new edition of the Firefox web browser auto spell checks any time you type something. It's rather handy. Of course for things such a Latin names, it's not going to catch most errors, but at least it will underline the word in red so that the typer will hopefully at least double check it.

I completely agree with viperpaintball...or at least to a degree. A venomous keeper who can't spell the names of his or her captive venomous herps, be it the common or Latin names, just seems like an accident waiting to happen. No that's not an elitist mentality, but one that believes that venomous keepers should be at a level above most beginning herp keepers who commonly misspell animal names. Am I wrong in believing that? Maybe. Have there been bites to keepers who have a vast array of knowledge and experience? Certainly. It's just my own personal view on the subject. That, and I'm soon to be a teacher and value education and knowledge rather highly.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

I think most people here agreed with you, responded curteously and listened to your points and counterpoints.

To that point, getting upset doesn't solve anything and frankly I'd rather see mispellings.

Out of all the forums I've ever wandered across, I believe this is one of the most "professional". I suspect it's because so many of the people posting here use either their real names or are KNOWN by others so it doesn't get so "flamey" as places filled with unknown people trolling about.

Best wishes.

I want to say I agree with you completely. I'm not on this forum very often, mostly I browse posts with pics and info on species.

I'm in my second year of college and one of the things I've learned in english classes and my speech class is that people judge your credibility on things that often don't really have anything to do with your subject. When you give a speech, you dress nicely, even though how you dress usually doesn't have anything to do with the speech.

I took a class in highschool that taught me how to write a resume. My ability to write my resume and update it has resulted in only one week of unemployment between jobs, even when I've unexpectedly lost one. At age 20, I have a pleasant job that I enjoy and puts me through college, just because I can write like an intelligent adult.

Correct spelling and grammar goes much farther towards impressing strangers reading what you write than anything you actually say. If I hadn't said anything about still being in college or about my age, I bet quite a few of you would have thought I was much older.

~jenny
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1.2 normal ball pythons (Cindy, Darwin, and Periscope)
0.2 rescue chinese water dragons (Yoni and Linga)
1.0 rex rat (Scurvy)
1.0 gerbil (Yerbul)
0.1 mice (Cute Girl Mousy)
0.1 bunny (Spazz)
1.1 betta fishes (Vicious and Killer)
2.2 great danes (Shasta, Odysseus, Merlot, and Watson)
1.0 fat fuzzy mutt (Smokey)
1.1 cats (Thidwick and Turtle)
3.0 horses (Buddy, Sam, and Scout)
1.0 goat (Billy Jack)
1.25 chickens (Ugly the rooster and his harem)

jenny.thegreenes.org

I have neither the time nor the interest to read all of the subsequent responses to your original post, but I'd like to applaud you for saying what many of us have thought for a long time.

Herpers as a group are veiwed as being, well, a bit off. We are! The world views us as Steve Irwin wannabe's, biker dudes, or just plain old weirdos.

I cringe every time I read a post about a deadly venomous animal that sounds like it was written by some kid on the short bus! I'm sorry, but we have a responsibility to our fellow reptile lovers and to the animals we keep to present an image that reflects the professionalism and dedication that has made this hobby a big business and this site the number one pet related site on the whole damn internet!

Some of our contributors are world renowned scientists and some of our contributors sound like they've eaten too many lead paint chips as a child!

I'm not saying you have to come off like some reptilian poet laureate. We all make spellign errors (you caught that right?), but the effort should at least be made to not sound like a slack jawed tool who "got me a pet cobra".

This site is our voice.

To the original poster, thank you.

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"Nothing happens in contradiction to nature, only to what we know of it."

(((((
6) 6)
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Really! My observation is that the only thing worse than spelling ability on these forums is reading comprehension.