Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all.

I have 4 White's Tree Frogs (my babies, they're gloriously wonderful - - - ), and they're in a gigantically high tank with all the necessary ingredients, heating elements, etc. When I got them, I intended them to all end up being the same size, though I have one, my little Edwina, who I've had for at least 8 or 9 months at this point, who to the best of my knowledge, hasn't grown at all. There's always been something a little off about her, she's never been as quick as the others at hunting crickets or mealworms, she's been the virtual "runt", but nonetheless, she still cuddles with the other 3, all of which are considerably larger, nearly every night. It's pretty cute, I'm not going to lie.

Recently, however, her "off-ness" has gotten far more severe, and I'm 99% positive that she's on her last leg. It happened out of nowhere - yesterday I woke up to find her sitting in the water bowl (one of her favorite places), almost floating on one side, convulsing in a strange manner, and having an extremely hard time catching her balance. I immediately started to freak out, and it was only a matter of minutes before she was in the infamous "dead frog" position, both hind legs hyperextended behind the hindquarters. I immediately started to cry, called my mom in New York and everything, and then I came back over to the tank, and she was sitting up on the side of the water bowl. Except for a shift or two in and out of the water, she hasn't moved from that spot in over 36 hours. She's alive, though her breathing is somewhat shallow. She managed to catch a cricket that was passing by, though I saw her try and leap at several others, seemingly gaping at nothing, being that the cricket was out of sight by the time she was able to muster up the energy to make an effort. I'm wondering if she has internal injuries from a fall she may have sustained when being daring, jumping from one tree to the other, her equilibrium is completely out of whack, and watching her like this is killing me. She was given to me by a girl who's brother wanted to feed it to his snake, so I have no idea how old she may or may not be. I'm sorry that this post is so long, but I simply don't know what to do. If I had the means of humane euthanasia, I would probably go ahead and do it, but subcutaneous fluids in amphibians are generally a bad idea, and I don't want her freaking out in her last couple of seconds.

I called a veterinarian in my area. They laughed at me over the phone.
I just don't know what to do.
It's getting to the point where if she's going to die, I'd just prefer her to get it over with. I just want her to be comfortable.

This post was ridiculously long, but I've so many people look me in the eye and tell me that "it's just a frog" that I need to vent to someone who may or may not know how it feels to be in my shoes.

In case you need a visual, that's her...sitting on my desk.
and no, I didn't put her digits in that position, she does that on her own.
man, she's super cute.

I just don't know what to do.
thanks in advance for any help, words of advice, encouragement, whatever.

[and just so ya'll know, I'm not going around throwing possible diagnoses, treatments, random factoids around without any sort of background or anything, I'm a fourth year biological anthropology and anatomy/biology major at Duke, I have a ton of experience in veterinary medicine, and with keeping amphibians - - - maybe that's part of my problem.]

and just so ya know, I've heard about this "orajel" method, or even constructing your own sort of CO2 chamber for "humane euthanasia", but I don't know if I have the guts to do that.

I apologize for sounding crazy, frantic, all of that stuff.
this whole thing just has me going crazy.
I'm probably not even making any sense at this point.
ugh, I hate being a girl. so emotional.

again, thanks.
anyone who knows more than I do is welcomed whole-heartedly.

I can't comment on euthanizing the frog - I've never had it done.

But, if you want to give the frog a second chance, try putting it into a separate enclosure. It is probably stressed out to the max by the larger frogs. This may result in poor nutrition, poor basking, etc.

So set up a smaller tank (a 10g would be fine), with branches, water, heat, light, etc., and let her stay there buy herself. Make sure she gets small insects to eat (easier to digest than large ones) that have been gut-loaded with good foods and finally dusted with calcium/d3 powder. If her hunting skills are poor, try hand-feeding her. Or put her in a plastic tub with a lid at feeding time. That way the bugs don't escape and lose all of their dusting. Keep the temps on the warm end (70s and 80s all the time) and spray regularly to keep the humidity up. I've used a 25-watt red light bulb as an overnight light that keeps the heat up but doesn't bother the frog.

Good luck.

I agree with the suggestion to seperate the frog. Don't give up on her (probably a him since its so small eh? even if it hasn't called yet)

It also peeves me off to think that people at a vets office laughed at you, seriously they are supposed to be taking care of sick animals, not laughing because its a frog. (I don't get laughed at, that's for sure)

Keep the decorations in the tank simple. Something to bathe in, something to hide behind and something to climb on. Paper towel substrate (although you probably already know how to set up a quarantine tank) I don't suggest moving your frog to feed it, if stress is a factor then you don't want to add any. It doesn't seem to me as if the symptoms fit stress though. Really it sounds like a toxicity problem. You haven't had the frog for that long, it may have been kept in bad conditions before (after all, it was just supposed to be a feeder) Watch your other frogs carefully.

No apologizing for long posts either, its way better to have lots of info than nothing at all (which is what alot of people give)

Good luck
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I think my frog owns a megaphone....

White's tree frogs : 1:1
Mantella viridis : 1:2

Oh, bless your heart! Why did you have to post a picture? Now I am crying too!

I went through the same thing with a little grey tree frog a couple of months ago. He didn't seem to grow and the other two became very large even though they were bigger to begin with. I assumed he was a baby when we found him.

Anyway, I returned from a business trip and my teenaged daughter (former keeper of the frogs) had been taking care of them while I was away. She seemed to think he had been eating some of the little pellets that sink in the water that we had been feeding all of them, but I think the two larger ones had kept him from eating. I noticed he wasn't moving much and then when I getting ready to clean the terrarium out, he flopped over on the ground (coconut fiber) on his back and extended his legs.

I was devastated. I too am a biologist and also get very emotional where any living creature is concerned. I got him out immediately and held him until he sat back up. Every little while he would flop over again. My daughter and I soaked some food and managed to get it in his mouth but he only swallowed a little of it. I watched his heart beating and every time it became still, I gently rubbed his chest until it started again. This went on, with me bawling like a baby, for over 2 hours, then my daughter took over for another hour.

He seemed finally to be doing better so I put him in a quarentine tank and we left him alone for a few hours. When I came back, he had passed away. I cried for two days. We had a little funeral, of course, especially since my son who is 9 was upset also.

My husband was really trying to be understanding but he too said that it was just a frog and get over it. He thinks I am ridiculous anyway, but he always has about animals.

I never knew if I killed him trying to save him, if he didn't get enough to eat, or if something else in the big tank got to him. I totally spoil my remaining frogs now. My husband has to even admit they are pretty cool and he bought me a new terrarium for Christmas. He even likes to put the crickets in sometimes.

Anyway, I wonder if you could get this little one to eat some of the canned food while in quarentine instead of always eating the crickets. He may be having trouble crickets in general, especially if they are a little large. Another option is canned mealworms, cut into pieces and fed from tongs. Mine love to eat from tongs but I didn't know it when my little wasn't eating. If it is lack of nutrition causing the weakened state, his hind legs will look skinny. All of mine were that way before I got the crickets and the canned worms. They won't eat dead food unless I hand it to them on tongs though, so don't expect him to eat it from a dish. I hope something works for you! I can't stand the thought of you having to put him to sleep.

Please let us know how he is.

Diane