Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, so i'm already in a really bad mood. I built a very expensive and large enclosure a couple weeks ago and it's pretty much garbage. I made the mistake of staining the cage and the stain still smells and who knows how long it will take before it goes away so it's not toxic to my animals.

My question is, I'm building a new one, one the first one I used screws to build the frame with 2x4's and I'm wondering if nails will be sturdy enough to hold the frame together. The frame will measure 4 feet wide by 4 feet tall by 2 feet front to back.

Also, on my last cage I used Plywood to cover everything and I'm wondering if it would be OK to cover the whole thing with some sort of heavy duty plastic? Well Any help is appreciated as my funds are severely depleted after the last cage.

I know I saw some one here that used Shower surround for the shell of the cage, but I can't find that any where here so that is not an option. I'm located in Orlando FLorida and everyone I've asked is pretty clueless to it. I've found stuff similar to it but It's VERY VERY expensive. The guy on here that used it said he found it for like $5 for a 4 foot by 8 foot peice.

Well, like I said, I appreciate all suggestions.

This is the frame

I'm wondering if nails will be sturdy enough to hold the frame together.

Yes, assuming the wood is cut in a way that allows a good glue bond between joining pieces.

But I have to ask, why the frame? Large display cabinets, kitchen cabinets and entertainment centers that hold heavy plasma TV sets rarely have frames. I have even seen cabinets for 55 gallon fish tanks that did not have structural frames and they hold up almost 500 pounds in glass, gravel and water.

Frames built from structural lumber have a variety of downfalls and very few advantages, although if you really want to use plastic then it might be a good idea.

Also, on my last cage I used Plywood to cover everything and I'm wondering if it would be OK to cover the whole thing with some sort of heavy duty plastic? I know I saw some one here that used Shower surround for the shell of the cage, but I can't find that any where here so that is not an option. I'm located in Orlando FLorida and everyone I've asked is pretty clueless to it. I've found stuff similar to it but It's VERY VERY expensive.

I'd be shocked if you could not find cheap tile board or shower board in an city the size of Orlando. I'm not a big fan of the stuff but it is cheap and if used in a cage where it is easy to replace, it does have a nice combination of reasonable weight, cost and durability.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

No frame?...hmmm...that would save a lot of money, but then I'm perplexed with a design for using 1/8" tileboard. I did a search online and the lowes website says my local store carries it and its $10.97 for a 4'x8' piece. I'll have to check again because I couldn't find it before. But the tile board sounds like it would make a good shell since it's lightweight and fairly cheap.

If I were to build a tile board cage I would not attach it to a frame made of typical structural lumber which is too moist and known to warp, twist etc, over time as it dries.

Instead I would probably build a plywood frame which would be lighter and more dimensionally stable.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

that's interesting to build a cage out of plywood, i would think that would be more prone to warp than a 2 X 4 frame since the 2 X 4s are so much thicker. But I don't really build cages or work with wood, so I wouldn't know one way or another, but I do appreciate the help and may try that out instead.

The plywood frame would take more skill in some regards. If you do use 2x4's, I would recommend trying to find some from a remodel/demo. They typically have aged for some time and are acclimated.

The general rule of thumb for 2x4's is that they need to age for on year in the typical garage environment before they are dry enough to be somewhat stable. And even then the wood species used for 2x4's etc. are considered unstable.

But back to the point, I still think that for most of the hobbyist/diy reptile cages, a typical frameless box built from 3/4" sheet material is the way to go.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Chris thanks for all that info, I really do appreciate it. Like they say...you learn something new every day! I think I'll build the box out of the plywood and use the 2 x 4's for the front part because I'm installing sliding Plexiglass doors.

Everything sounds good but the 2x4's for the front sliding glass track. I would either build a true face frame from an acclimated solid wood or just use strips of plywood. Trust me.

I just used strips of plywood on both of these cages. Both would have looked better with solid wood face frames, but I saved a lot of money by using the plywood.

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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

Being someone that recently built a 4x2 cage. I found the plywood easy to work with. I used Birch on Mr Harpers recommendation. I sealed the cage and used screws with countersink. The only chage would be maybe to seal it with KIlz next time. But god I love the look of a sealed birch cage. Home depot did all the cuts and I was happy with the results. I liked the idea of a tileboard cage. But it looked like so much more work. Maybe just covering the bottom of the cage and a little way up the sides.

UGH, had typed up a long reply and lost it

Bottom line, Chris is right, plywood cages are plenty strong and will last a long time if done well.

Here are two stacks I built, the left one was the "prototype" and the one on the right is the "new improved" model.

Left - two stackable sections 4 enclosures each, yeah, too heavy to easily stack/unstack. Formica floor, stained/polyurathaned walls ceiling.

Right - four stackable sections, 2 enclosures each. Entire inside lined with formica

Both are now heated with RHP's.....WOW a great improvement over light bulbs / heat tape.

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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, selectively bred from good stock)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
12.25 BRB
12.14 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Hey Guys, it looks like both Chris and dave stained their closures, what did you guys use for the stain, those are some awesome enclosures you guys made!

Don't remember the brand, got it at the hardware store. Any good water based stain should be OK, IMO more important is the poly you put over it. I use varathane diamond elite and have not had any troubles with it.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, selectively bred from good stock)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
12.25 BRB
12.14 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

The friend I build the cage for stained the cage. I'm certain he used a Minwax oil based stain, although I had recommended water based. I applied a few seal coats of water based polyurethane and then a single thick coat of Envirotex Lite, a bar top epoxy.

My only recommendations there is to avoid the "stains" that are actually a mix of stain and polyurethane. I also recommend avoiding oil based polyurethane.
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Current snakes:

0.0.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Java locale (green)

1.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - Jave local (green)

2.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Seleyar locale (all black)

1.2 Gonyosoma janseni - Celebes locale (Black & Tan)

here's what i tried, One last ditch effort to save the first enclosure since I spent so much on it. I was looking around Lowes and picked up some Water- Based Polycrylic. I'm guessing that will work the same as a water based polyurethane because I couldn't find a waterbased urethane and when i asked they said this was it. So I coated the entire enclosure a couple times and in 24 hours I'll bring it in the house and see if it smells any more.

But I do appreciate all the advice and will be putting it to good use in the very near future!

ok I have some expierence with tile board and plywood and 2 x 4 frames and warping!

the begining....I built a 6Lx 3D x 4T water monitor cage...we used 2x3's and 1/2" ply wood. It lasted about 2 years but very unstable! moldy and rotted.

we then used 2 x 4's and built a 8 x 8 x 4 cage that lasted less than 2 yeard and rotted!

we now have gone to pressure treaed 2 x 4's and tile board along with cement block and it seems way better....(the 2x4's are coated with a paint I got from my father who is a commercial painter! wont effect the reptile at all!)

you could build the frame and line the INSIDE with tile board! this will prevent warping!

hope this helps gl and when your finished please post some pics!

Paul
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R.I.P Steve "croc hunter" Erwin Sept 2006

Thanks for the info paul, I've stained and sealed the wood with polycrylic so I hope that will help prevent molding issues. I applied the Polycrylic this past friday but there is still a stong smell coming from it, so I may try another couple coats and see what happens.

Sounds like the regulars have you on the right track, but as far as the tile board if you still are looing for it ... in homedepot they keep is on the bottom shelf in the isle they stock panneling. Ask for panneling and just look down the whole isle, your bound to find it.
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- Jason F.

Thanks Jason, I was looking up tile board on Home depots website and the website said no records found. I guess they call it paneling there. But thanks for the info!