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Water choices

XBlackHeart Jan 19, 2007 02:21 PM

I know some people say that they use bottled water for their snakes.
Well, I am currently dealing with someone that has used Distilled water. Are there any health issues that are proven, or well known to associate with that?
The snake she had lost weight extremely fast. I assumed that once the snake became dehydrated, its drive for food was diminished. I know other animals dont want food once they become dehydrated.
Any thoughts on this distilled water thing would be greatly appreciated.
-----
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Replies (33)

xblackheart Jan 19, 2007 04:10 PM

I found this link, but it does not say why distilled water is dangerous and can kill your snake
http://www.moreptiles.com/faqs.htm
-----
****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

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mullinsn2000 Jan 19, 2007 04:44 PM

Distilled water is perfectly healthy. The simplified explanation of the distilling process is that the water is boiled and the steam is collected while the other things in the water is left behind.

draybar Jan 19, 2007 05:00 PM

>>Distilled water is perfectly healthy. The simplified explanation of the distilling process is that the water is boiled and the steam is collected while the other things in the water is left behind.

It IS NOT safe for snakes.
I do not remember why...yet....but I do know it is not safe to give reptiles distilled water.
I will find out why.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

mullinsn2000 Jan 19, 2007 05:13 PM

Please do. I would like to know. The simplified process I explained is the way the company I work for produces their distilled water and I know distilled water was recommended for me to use when I kept fish because it was free of contaminants such as chlorine. NOT saying you are wrong, you just peaked my curiosity as to why it is bad. Let us know when you found out the reason. Thanks!

mullinsn2000 Jan 19, 2007 05:14 PM

Also. Distilled water is what I am supposed to use to make my babies formula. Not that a human baby has anything to do with snakes, just thought I would add it. LOL

sean1976 Jan 19, 2007 11:31 PM

I have not seen reptile specific reasons as to why distilled is bad for them but I am sure that the same reasons that make it unhealthy for humans apply.

Distilled water is unhealthy in general because it lacks the mineral content that is in it in nature. What it does is leach nutrients from your body. Now in a healthy person this is negligable and hardly noticeable. Likewise with baby formula you are adding a absolute ton of content to the distilled water so it is no longer in the distilled state when ingested. Years ago the distilled water and zero fat craze caused ENORMOUS health problems in the elderly comunity since they were not healthy enough to take the stress of nutritional starvation.

Another example of a similar thing occuring is what happens to aquatic animals(particularly frogs if I remember correctly) and put them into the wrong type of water. ie freshwater animal into oceanwater or vice versa.

Another thing to keep in mind is that almost everywhere(at least in the US) the water quality standards for tapwater are higher then the standards for bottled water so you are normally better off using tap water.

The exception to the tap water is some counties use a chemical to treat the water(disinfect) that is extremely toxic but which is not deadly to humans. If I remeber correction it is some bonded form of amonia or chlorine. Either way it will instantly kill fish and many other aquatic or sensitive animals.

That being said there are treatment products specifically for reptiles water which among many other things removes the chemical mentioned before. I apologize for not remembering it's name, it was a while ago that I got all the info on it when they were talking about starting it's use in my area.

If your really worried about using the tap water I would talk to a reptile vet and/or a good quality fish store as both should be familliar with any issues.

sean1976 Jan 19, 2007 11:39 PM

lol wish there was a way to edit/erase posts you've made

Obviously when I responded above I had not seen draybar's response and explanation.

The chemical I was trying to remember was chloramines.

There are products (including reptile specific ones) which specifically remove chloramines.

mullinsn2000 Jan 20, 2007 03:19 AM

Distilled water is not bad for humans. It is what is supposed to be mix4ed with baby formula powder.

sean1976 Jan 20, 2007 09:40 PM

Distilled is not horrible but it is bad for humans.

What is confusing you is that once you add baby formula to distilled water it is no longer distilled water. It then has various things other then H2O in it. Namely it is a milk like liquid.

mullinsn2000 Jan 21, 2007 09:58 AM

I completely understand what you are saying. Just because distilled water is lacking minerals does not make it bad for humans. Most of the processed crap (lol) we eat in America is lacking in something. As long as people eat a varied diet with foods that contain all the vitamins and minerals they need then no harm will come to them. I drink distilled water all day long in the summer because it is free and it is cold on my truck.

sean1976 Jan 21, 2007 02:39 PM

Yes with a varied and sufficient diet the distilled will not have any noticeable affect on someone. This is because you are intaking more nutrients sufficiently then the distilled water strips from your body as it goes through.

I just used the elderly humans example because it was a problem in that comunity since they tended to be less healthy and poorer in diet then other sections of the species. Also because anything that can cause a problem like that for us will be much worse for a baby reptile.

But bottom line is that yes if you are healthy and getting plenty of vitamines and minerals then drinking distilled water should have no real effect on you.

ChristopherD Jan 22, 2007 07:45 AM

i cant think of any fish that could benefit from dist.water even the Discus need small mineral content in their water and the African Cichlids relish the" liquid rock " hard water.

draybar Jan 19, 2007 05:16 PM

>>>>Distilled water is perfectly healthy. The simplified explanation of the distilling process is that the water is boiled and the steam is collected while the other things in the water is left behind.
>>
>>
>>
>>It IS NOT safe for snakes.
>>I do not remember why...yet....but I do know it is not safe to give reptiles distilled water.
>>I will find out why.
>>-----

This is from an articlae in Reptiles Magazine

"I think everyone needs to know about the differences between the varieties of bottled water offered for sale versus using tap water that has been altered in some way (i.e. through filtration, chemical dechlorination, etc.). It is probably safest to use bottled water if you are unsure if your municipal water is fish-safe. Chlorine is easily removed from tap water by the use of drops that dechlorinate the water, however, many areas of the country now use chloramines as sanitizing agents, and these compounds are much more difficult to safely remove. Cities that use chloramines in their water usually include information about it in the monthly billing statements, and this information is also available online or if you call their office and request information about the safety of using tap water for aquarium fish. If the water is not recommended for aquarium fish, then you should also not use it with herps, especially amphibians.

Amphibians are unique in that they can absorb oxygen through their skin, and dissipate carbon dioxide, as well. Because their skin should be kept moist in order for them to “breathe” and also because the skin absorbs water, the type of water they are given is very important.

Distilled water is basically water with nothing else in it. That means that there are no dissolved salts and minerals. This is a type of water that a wild animal would never be exposed to. All water found in nature has some salt and minerals dissolved in it, and this is important for something called osmotic regulation. Suffice it to say that this term means how water passes into and out of cells and is regulated, in part, by the dissolved solids in the water. Water routinely passes in and out of cells, which is how the body regulates almost all bodily functions. So, dissolved minerals and salts are very important for normal physiological functions. Distilled water, with no dissolved salts and minerals, cannot support those normal bodily functions. That is why your poor salamander blew up from absorbing water because there was nothing in that water to prevent absorption.

When a human or an animal is given intravenous fluids that fluid is far from distilled water. It is sterile, however, but it contains dissolved sodium chloride (salt) at the same percentage as blood, which is 0.9 percent and is called physiological saline. Other sterile IV fluids may include one called Ringer’s Lactate, which is a combination of salts dissolved in the fluid, and pH buffered for IV use. A type of sugar called dextrose can also be dissolved in the fluid to provide some energy for the patient.

Tap water also has dissolved salts, but also may have fluoride, chlorine or chloramines added. The pH, or how acid or alkaline the water is, may vary greatly in tap water. There are usually a variable number of harmless and potentially dangerous microscopic organisms in the water.

Bottled water also has dissolved salts and minerals in it and may also have a wide range of pH. Some bottled spring water is just that, natural spring water with dissolved minerals. Most spring water comes from deep in the ground, having been filtered through porous limestone or other rock, purifying it along the way. When being bottled, spring water is often treated with ultraviolet light to kill any live organisms that may be present in the water, such as algae, or it may be run through a micron filter to remove particulate matter, such as fine sand, silica, etc. Natural spring water is usually not carbonated (containing bubbles); however, rarely a spring may produce naturally carbonated water (Perrier is an example). Bottled natural spring water is probably the safest to use for amphibians, although it is probably a good idea to use a pH test strip to ascertain the pH of the water, to ensure that it is suitable for the particular species that you are keeping. Low pH means that the liquid is acidic, and a high pH means that the liquid is alkaline. A pH of 7.0 is neutral, being neither acidic nor alkaline.

Distilled water being demineralized, contains more hydrogen and is considered an acid, with a pH of less than 7.0. Any time a human or animal consumes or, in the case of an amphibian, is soaked in distilled water, the body pulls minerals from teeth (if they have them) and bones to produce bicarbonate to neutralize the acid. This can prove dangerous over time. Another problem with distilled water is that acidic liquids will result in the production of more free-radicals, which are molecules that can increase the risk for cancer. There are people who feel that distilled water is safe and healthful to drink, but the mainstream medical community discourages the consumption of distilled water. Likewise, providing pet herps with distilled water is not recommended. Because amphibians respire through their skin and also absorb water through the skin, distilled water can be particularly dangerous to them."
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

draybar Jan 19, 2007 05:18 PM

>>
>>
>>
I can't even spell article....LOL
although the article leans more towards amphibians you can easily garner the information that distilled water is dangerous to reptiles as well as amphibians.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

mullinsn2000 Jan 19, 2007 05:44 PM

What I got from it is that it is not good long term, but if used once it is not really too harmful, just should not be used all the time. It is not like a poison in that it will kill if used once. Am I correct in that assumption?

draybar Jan 19, 2007 05:49 PM

>>What I got from it is that it is not good long term, but if used once it is not really too harmful, just should not be used all the time. It is not like a poison in that it will kill if used once. Am I correct in that assumption?

well, as far as a snake, tortoise or lizard would be concerned I doubt one or two times would be deadly but I sure wouldn't want to risk it more then that.
As for an amphibian though....did you see the part about the salamander blowing up...whew...not good.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

mullinsn2000 Jan 19, 2007 07:17 PM

Yes I saw that part. I was just referring to snakes. Thanks for the info.

phiber_optikx Jan 20, 2007 09:18 PM

It has been a LONG time since biology so forgive me if I mis-remember anything. But the problem with distilled water is that EVERYTHING is removed. That may sound like a good thing at first but it is not. If you break it down to a cellular level you will see that during osmosis there are "flags" that go up in your cells that tell/warn them that they have absorbed enough fluids. In distilled water the elements that cause these flags/alarms to go off are not present. So your cells will absorb water until they explode. In short, with distilled water your cell membranes are completely permeable.
-----
.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

"You saved my life! I'm gonna get you so many lizards!"

xblackheart Jan 19, 2007 07:07 PM

I knew that using distilled water was bad, but now I have the reasoning. How'd you find that info so fast?
-----
****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

Instant Messaging
AIM - BlackHeartMisty
Yahoo - Xxdarkheart
MSN - xxdarkheart

"I will conquer my procrastination problem...Just you wait!"

draybar Jan 19, 2007 09:02 PM

>>I knew that using distilled water was bad, but now I have the reasoning. How'd you find that info so fast?
>>-----
>>****Misty****
>>
>>www.sneakyserpents.com
>>

I Googled "distilled water and reptiles" and saw Reptiles Magazine and figure that would be my best choice.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

xblackheart Jan 20, 2007 01:11 AM

I google'd Distilled water and snakes and then just distilled water.....I thought about doing the reptile part, but figured I wouldn't get anything!!! Then again, I guess I did not try hard enough!! Thanks again for the info
-----
****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

Instant Messaging
AIM - BlackHeartMisty
Yahoo - Xxdarkheart
MSN - xxdarkheart

"I will conquer my procrastination problem...Just you wait!"

sean1976 Jan 19, 2007 11:46 PM

I don't know about when that artical waswritten but there are currently products, including reptile specific ones, which specifically remove/neutralize chloramines as well as the more standard contaminants.

"Spring" water if it actually comes out of a standard natural spring and has no contamination in between would be safest and fit the above description. Unfortunately regulation on bottled water, even if labled spring water, is so loose that most studies have found higher contaminant levels in bottled water then in tap water(in US, dunno about foriegn standards). Among other things causing this is that, last I heard, none of the spring water companies were 100% from the mouth of the spring so you ended up getting lots of contaminant exposure from air, surface soil, and animals.

Anyways just do your research for whatever water you are looking at using so you know the risks and do not use distilled.

DonSoderberg Jan 20, 2007 04:16 PM

Some of the posts on this thread are correct. The main deficiency in distilled water is the minerals. Many minerals are too heavy to be retauined in steam. The main thing wrong with distilled water is the lack of minerals. This is NOT a small thing. It's VERY important that neonate snakes get these minerals. Many of these minerals are only tracely represented in immature mice, but adult snakes can get most of their needed minerals in adult mice. Therefore distilled would probably not be bad for adult snakes, but why would you deprive them of beneficial nutrients at all? NO DISTILLED WATER, PLEASE.

As stated, more research has gone into the diet of human babies than that of snakes. Trillions of dollars has been spent to discern best nutrition for humans. Therefore, all essential vitamins and minerals are in the forumlas you mix with distilled water. Therefore, nothing wrong with that for humans since you're supplementing with formula. If you're not mixing snake formulated additives to your distilled water, use UNdistilled water. It's that simple. NO distilled water. If Spring water has a few things that are not that good for people or animals, so what? Believe me. In today's litigious society, if anyone even so much as puked from drinking Spring water they later found a bacterium in, it would be all over CNN and govenments would immediately stop the sale of bottle water until the problem was fixed. Even though they are modestly regulated, the one thing we can count on is human greed. There are ambulance chasers (attorneys) circling above that are just waiting to sue a major water bottler for one case of illness they can prove was from bad water. This to me is the best evidence that bottled water is safe. It does have the essential minerals your baby snakes need. Neonate mice you're feeding your snakes will not make up for the loss of nutrition from using distilled water.

Again, why take a chance? Even slight malnourishment during the young months of a corn can come back to haunt you when that snake is grown.

Don
www.cornsnake.NET
www.cornsnake.NET

xblackheart Jan 22, 2007 09:38 AM

I agree that distilled water is no good. Someone had used distilled water for their snake (hatchling) and it had lost so much weight, and it could barely move. The person brought it to me and after a few questions on care, they said they only used distilled water. So, this snake had been on distilled water for over a month. I syringe fed it regular tap water and it started to perk up a tiny bit in a day. I am still struggling to get weight on the snake and encourage it to eat.
I was just wanting the reasons behind distilled water being bad. And, by the response of the first person, not everyone knows how bad it is. So, I am glad you and Jimmy could help get the word out there.
-----
****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

Instant Messaging
AIM - BlackHeartMisty
Yahoo - Xxdarkheart
MSN - xxdarkheart

"I will conquer my procrastination problem...Just you wait!"

DonSoderberg Jan 22, 2007 02:24 PM

Not trying to get in a plug for my book, but I did addresse this issue in the feeding and watering chapter. I plan to elaborate more on it in the next book and I have a blurp about it on the care sheet of my web site.

Don
www.cornsnake.NET
South Mountain Reptiles

draybar Jan 22, 2007 05:18 PM

>>Not trying to get in a plug for my book, but I did addresse this issue in the feeding and watering chapter. I plan to elaborate more on it in the next book and I have a blurp about it on the care sheet of my web site.
>>
>>Don
>>www.cornsnake.NET
>>South Mountain Reptiles

Yes you did.
I knew I had read it in your book and it seems as if there was a discussion on this forum a year or two back as well.
I also recognised the Reptile Magazine article.
I have a large stack of Reptile Magazines from the last several years I enjoy perusing when I get the time.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

DonSoderberg Jan 22, 2007 07:16 PM

Honestly, if a reference to distilled water was in another publication, I would also mention that.
South Mountain Reptiles

blue2004srt4 Jan 21, 2007 01:25 AM

What about R.O. Water/Drinking water from the store. It is different from distilled. It lacks a couple of steps in purifying. is that bad too?

sean1976 Jan 21, 2007 03:35 AM

depends on what it does to purify. If it removes the minerals then it is not preferable even if it may not be harmfull. If it's leaving the minerals in then it is prolly fine.

ChristopherD Jan 22, 2007 08:15 AM

what about well water?my snakes did fine on chloromine tab water,now im on a well and snakes are fine, but bacteria im sure would prefer well water.

sean1976 Jan 22, 2007 04:54 PM

A properly maintained well will have a good filter/disinfecting method already in place.

If the well is up to spec and operating correctly then the main difference is well water normally has a much higher mineral content then tap. But both will be being filtered and/or disinfected with something so you still need to check what substance is being used in case it is one thats a problem for any of your animals. If I remember correctly from back when I was on a well the two most common are charcoal filtering or chlorine.

ChristopherD Jan 23, 2007 05:56 AM

im in the woods of central Fla. and have tasteless,odorless crystal clear water right out of the ground with just a subm. 1h/p pump and pressure tank no other add-ons or chems. every couple months i clean a little sand out of the faucet screen.and evaporated water bowl leave a light mineral crust.

ratsnakehaven Jan 30, 2007 05:49 PM

I used to live in the city, about 15 yrs. ago, and I would leave the water sit for 24 hrs, or more, to get the chlorine out. The city might put trace amts of other chems in the water, but it was the chlorine that gave us problems with our reptiles and amphibians.

Now I live way out in the country, on a 20 acre hobby farm. We have a well going down 130 ft. The water is pure, pure, pure! We have a filter on the system to catch any particulates that might be pumped up with the water, but we don't add any chemicals when filtering. I have raised hundreds of snakes on this water and our own mice. They all have thrived.

My point would be that this water doesn't pose any chemical threat to the snakes. It is also free from any bacterial problems. However, I don't speak for everyone, and agree you need to be aware of possible chemicals being added to your water, as stated above.

Cheers....TC

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