Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My 9 yr old ds bought his first snake yesterday. It is a dream come true for him. He researched thoroghly and felt prepared. We had stopped at a local pet store just to look around but once we got there couldn't resist. We initially wanted to go to a breeder. This particular pet store said that they breed their own. Well after 3 trips to the store yesterday trying to get it right we are still very concerned that her habitat is all wrong. She is a Western Hognose. We don't know the subspecies. She is young. As crazy as it sounds we don't know her age. We will ask later today when we call on them yet again. So here are our questions...
1) Substrate - they recommended and sold us Zilla Fir and Sphagnum Peat Moss Mix and said to spread about 1/2 inch thick. Then they said to add Zilla Beaked Moss on top and spray (two different people gave us two different answers). I'm concerned that this is way more humidity than our snake needs. I'm also worried about the sphagnum clogging her Did we get the right substrate???
2)Undertank heating. We are using a 10 gallon aquarium that is 20 x 10 inches. It has an adhesive heating pad under it. The care instructions they gave said that if you have that then to put a piece of slate over it to protect her. So we went back to the pet shop where they insisted that wasn't necessary. If she got hot she would just move. I read this morning that isn't true. Also, they sold us a lamp with a 60 watt bulb. I think that must be too much as we are having a hard time regulating the temp.
3) Finally, we haven't seen her today

We are very worried. I'm very angry at the pet shop. The workers act like experts but all gave different and I'm thinking incorrect info. Any help would be really appreciated. DS is beside himself this a.m.

Thanks,

A lot of snake care is pure opinion. People know what works best for them, so unless their snakes have a history with the vet or look unhealthy or anything I wouldn't say they're "wrong" persay.

The heating pad and bulb are alright, but I suggest getting a dimmer for them so you can regulate the temps better and get it just perfect. I've never heard of using a piece of slate over a heating pad before. The dimmer will work to make sure your snake doesn't get burned though, use a thermometer on it. Your snake will not move if it gets too hot.

As for the substrate and humidity I'm not so sure. Too much humididty can cause scale rot. My suggestion is to get a hide and put damp peat moss in that only, but use dry bedding for the rest of the terrarium. (NEVER cedar or pine) I'd reccomend using a bedding that has large chunks as well. My snake LOVES to burrow in her substrate and was a very unhappy snake the one time I put her on sand-like substrate. Right now I'm using coconut husk bedding but I'll probably switch to aspen if i find some aspen that has bigger chunks.

Coconut bedding is not safe at all!
My brother just had a snake put to sleep, because the vet couldn't remove the bedding which accumulated in it over the years.
Once they start ingesting it, it can accumulate.
Anyway, when he brought the snake to the vet, and the vet hydrated her, you could actually see the snake swell-up, which was actually the coconut bark swelling inside it.
Carefresh or cell-sorb plus are the best for hogs.
These are also ok to mix with aspen, but I don't like seeing my snakes ingest the wood chips.
In general, hogs like it on the drier side. Don't moisten the cage. If there is a problem with shdding, then it may be too dry, but I would recommend not moistening the entire cage or bedding.

Yeah when I got the coconut husk I'd heard great things about it, after though I heard bad things, so now I'm looking to switch to aspen. All I've been finding lately is shredded aspen though, which doesn't seem great for her burrowing habits.

The shredded works just fine, as it packs pretty easy. i have my Westerns, Tricolors, and Easterns on it. Just do not feed on it.
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Jenea
Guardian Reptiles

"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

>>Yeah when I got the coconut husk I'd heard great things about it, after though I heard bad things, so now I'm looking to switch to aspen. All I've been finding lately is shredded aspen though, which doesn't seem great for her burrowing habits.

What kind of shredded aspen are you using.. the curled long pieces or the stuff chopped up into tiny squares? The tiny squares isn't very good to use but the curled stuff is much better.
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PHWyvern

I've never seen tiny chips.... or curled shreds in the reptile stores near me. They carry straight shredded aspen, which is thin and doesn't seem too great for my hoggie's burrowing.

As for the under tank heater, I guess it's really up to your preferences. The tile solution is another way of keeping your snake from burning itself but still using an undertank heater.

Sticking an undertank heater to the glass is a matter of preference. Using a dimmer like I said, is another solution. It just depends what works best for you and your snake. I don't use undertank heaters anymore. The heatng bulbs by themselves work perfectly, but I have used them in the past. I usually buy a tank that my snake will live her whole life in, so I won't be removing undertank heaters or anything. As for the cleaning issue, I use paper towels and water to clean, so there is no fire hazard. My tanks wouldn't fit in the sink, lol!

Thank you! I was able to get a hold of a rep. vet. this a.m. too and he felt that we were pretty much okay. My new question is how do we get a dimmer? This is one of those days I am beyond glad for the internet! We just want a happy, healthy snake. My poor ds thought it was dead and started sobbing. But, as it turns out she just wasn't active yet. Soooo - we are on a bit of a learning curve I guess.

Thanks again,
Cindy

I got a Western Hognose pup myself this past summer. I also keep mine for now in a 10-gallon aquarium like you, but I use aspen chips for the substrate. One of the things I notice is that she is only active in the early mornings. Most of the time she buries herself in the chips. When I do see her out and about, she is usually burrowing through the chips as if she were searching for toads. What I like about Aspen chips is that they are easy to clean and the snake seems to enjoy burrowing in them.

To heat her tank, I use a 60-watt IR bulb and I have a thermostat that regulates the temperature of the area where the bulb is producing heat. This has worked well so far.

I do not feed her on the aspen. I place her in a small deli cup with warmed f/t pinkie mice, and then I cover the cup and place it back in her cage. I offer her four at a time at this point, and sometimes she will eat all four and other times she will just eat just one or two. I leave her in the deli cup with the mice for about 20 minutes. Since I also have some Kingsnake pups about the same size, I feed any leftover mice to them. If you don’t let the mice sit out too long, you could refreeze any that your snake doesn't not eat. I feed my snakes once a week.

For the most part, I keep and breed American Rat Snakes and Kingsnakes. This is my first time keeping a Hognose, so I am not an expert. I would not use an under the tank heater with a snake that likes to burrow. Do what nature does and heat their tank from above, and use a thermostat at ground level in the area of the heat source. You can get ones that sticks to the outside of the tank that work just fine for what you are doing. If your pet store doesn’t have them, you can order one on the web.

Good luck to you and your son with your new snake.

I keep my hogs (and just about all of my other snakes) on aspen too.

If you have an undertank heater, you really don't need the light (if you want one just for illumination purposes you could get a cheap flourescent (no need to get one of the UV emitting varieties) since those won't add to the heat much). You want the heater to cover about 1/4 of the tank and you want it to run around 95-100. Aspen is nice because they can burrow down to the appropriate depth above the heater to get to the desired temperature. A lot of the UTH's (under tank heaters) on the market get too hot: 120 so this is where the dimmer or something similar comes in. Dimmers can be purchased at home inmprovement stores for use with things like lamps. They regulate the amount of power going to the device so that you can regulate brightness in the case of a lamp or heat in the case of your UTH. Some need to be wired in, but I've seen some plug in type models for sale on-line. You also want to get a good digital thermometer so you can accurately measure the temperature of your UTH. I would recommend going with the dimmer rather than the slate. The slate would likely protect your snake, but you could have excessive heat building up under the tank around the UTH and this could put you at risk for a fire. Zoomed also manufactures a product called a Reptile Rheostat which works in the same manner as a dimmer, and I've seen it available at most stores that carry their products; it just costs more.

You could also use the light as the sole heat source. You would want the max surface temp below it to be between 95-100 while keeping the cool side 70-80. It works best if doing this to have two hides with the light shining on one of them so that the snake can warm up without feeling that it has to sit exposed. Lights are a bit trickier to regulate because you don't want to heat up the entire tank and most snakes aren't going to readily use something like an elevated basking site. For this reason, I prefer UTHs for my snakes.

Pretty much all you should need for your hog is a tank (10 gallon is fine), a heat source, a digital thermometer to monitor temperature, something to regulate temperature if it's too high (dimmer or rheostat), substrate (aspen works great), something to hide under (cork slabs, any of those manufactured caves or half logs should do the trick), a water dish and food.

Frequency and amount of food to give depends a lot on who you talk to. There are many feeding regimes that seem to work equally well. I give most of my snakes (hogs included) one appropriately sized meal a week. I like to use prey items that are around 3/4ths to equal the width of my snakes. This should result in a slight lump. It is also a good idea to refrain from handling right after a meal and give the snake at least a couple days to digest it before doing any handling. This reduces the chance of regurgitation.

-Alice

You can get a plug-in dimmer at home depot. I've gotten a couple there. They'll be in the lighting section. Another solution would be a thermostat, but they are more expensive. If you check the temps often with the dimmers it will be fine.

You can get them at Walmart also. They are called table top of lamp dimmers.
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Jenea
Guardian Reptiles

"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

"Your snake will not move if it gets too hot."

Not exactly true... after all what else is the purpose of thermoregulating? They move around from spot to spot...from cool side to hot side depending on what they need.

Now, it IS true that if they are too hot, or even burning they do not register that they are in pain and let themselves get burned.

Many years ago when I had my first corn snake baby I freaked out constantly for many weeks because the snake was never on the hot side of the tank, and I used a UTH and a ceramic heat coil on the same end at the time. Turns out that was WAY too hot and the snake just instinctivly stayed away.

Also, snakes like to hide, chances are you will not see the snake alot. I never see some of my snakes unless I actually get them out. They dont make the greatest display animals sometimes. And if it's new to your household, leave it alone!! For at least 48 hours! Don't touch it, move the tank, move substrate...nothing.. let it get used to it's new home.

Hope that helps.

Sarah
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FireDrake Exotics
www.FireAndLilac.com

Yes they do thermoregulate but I meant if they touch a surface that is too hot they won't necessarily move. Gradual heating is different. They won't let themselves get overheated but they might accidentally burn themselves on a hot surface.

>>I've never heard of using a piece of slate over a heating pad before. The dimmer will work to make sure your snake doesn't get burned though, use a thermometer on it. Your snake will not move if it gets too hot.
>>

Actually the better course of action is to never place a sticky under tank heater directly to the tank itself. Once it's attached, you've removed any possibility of being able to thoroughly clean a tank out as you cannot allow the UTH to get wet (fire/safety hazard). Once you peel off a UTH from a tank, you again cannot re-use it as the risk of broken wires inside is too great of a safety issue. A UTH stuck directly to the glass tank will create major hot spots that can burn an animal possibly. If it's too hot for you to hold your hand on that spot without getting burned then it's too hot for the animal.

What I find works best is to allow the heat to dissipate from the UTH by attaching it to a piece of ceramic tile that will fit under the tank. Then use hex nuts (hardware store) or something ..to set the tank up off the ground a little.. 1/4 - 1/2 inch. This allows air to flow under the tank and between the UTH and the tank bottom reducing the effect of hot spots. The UTH being on a ceramic tile reduces fire/safety issues and you can clean the tank like it should be cleaned. Also, if you ever decide to move the snake to a bigger tank, you just move the ceramic tile over.. no need to buy another pad or risk safety issues trying to peel the old off the other tank and attempt to stick to the new tank.
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PHWyvern

And so are pine, cedar and walnut. Aromatic bark contains chemicals for repelling insects. Bad for snakes. My source is Kathy Love.

Aspen is perfect for hoggies. They love to burrow in it.

I wouldn't be doing any misting. A crock of water will give you plenty of humidity. Too high humidity could cause scale rot or respiratory problems. Flukers sells a digital humidistat/thermostat that works nicely. The only time you might want to raise the humidity is if your snake has an incomplete shed- the shed doesn't come off all in one piece. Then you can do things for the next shed like putting in a "moist hide" (small container with dmap moss) and covering the top of the viv partially with plastic wrap.

Nanci
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*****
0.0.1 Normal Corn, 0.0.1 Cali King 0.1 Nelson's Milk
0.1 Tricolor Hog, 0.0.1 Eastern Hog, 1.0 Eastern Box Turtle
0.0.2 Desert Torts, 2.0 Feral Pigeons

>>And so are pine, cedar and walnut. Aromatic bark contains chemicals for repelling insects. Bad for snakes.
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Pine is not toxic unless you are buying it unprocessed from a saw mill. Processed store bought pine is kiln dried to remove the resin from it. Kiln dried pine is a safe bedding to use.
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PHWyvern

I think thats debatable.