Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is something I think should be posted here.
Indiana S048

What course of action is best taken in this situation? Does anyone have any experience in dealing with this type of bill that could lend some information?

Ohio has had basically the same Bill introduced. Supposedly,it's to be re-introduced again in 2007. I've seen basically the same language used in other states also.

Mark

You need to start by contacting your representatives and letting them know that you are oppossed to the passing of this legislation. The most effective means are either by phone or surface mail letter. You need to make sure that you pro-offer a level-headed and polite response. You also need to get your local herp society and other hobbiests involved and make sure that the legislators hear from a lot of people. Emails are better than nothing but phone calls, letters and face to face meetings are far more effective.

Peter Lindsey
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Peter and Sara
Beouf River Reptiles

The author of this legistlation can be found at the link attached. All Indiana residents should write expressing their dissatisfaction with this bill. Be polite, but be stern about your position. This could impact more than Indiana.

http://www.in.gov/legislative/senate_democrats/homepages/s46/index.html
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Support your local herp society
www.chicagoherp.org

Here is my response. I encourage other to contact the senator as well. This is supposed to be a democracy, correct?

There are many responsible reptile owners who maintain their animals in a safe and humane manner. Even horses have the capability to inflict mortal injuries, but we certainly would not wish to outlaw their ownership. Forgive my bluntness, but Senate Bill 0482 is an over-reactive, witch-hunting style legistlation reminiscent of autocratic government style.

Please reconsider the wording of your bill and consider for instance the fact that many species of snakes over six feet in potential length are neither dangerous nor aggresive. The bill though well-intended prevents many individuals from keeping animals as pets that give them just as much enjoyment as dogs or cats. Discrimination not only applies to race, color and religion, but species of animal.

Why would you wish to be associated with the masses who based their erroneous perceptions on ignorance. I would be happy to discuss suggested wording to this proposal that is both reasonable and manageable from a state level.

Thank you for your time,
Rich Crowley
former President (2006) and Adoptions Chairperson, Chicago Herpetological Society
cell phone xxx-xxx-xxxx
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Support your local herp society
www.chicagoherp.org

Thanks for your help Rich. I have done the same as I suggest resident in Indiana does. Here is what I sent to the same Senator as well as all the others on the that are on the Committee of Natural Resources.

I have been informed of proposed Senate Bill No. 482 http://www.in.gov/legislative/bills/2007/IN/IN0482.1.html prohibiting a person from acquiring or breeding certain exotic reptiles/and other exotic animals after July 1, 2007. I cannot help but think this is all stemming from the tragic death of an Indiana python owner recently. This is extremely upsetting to me because I have owned large pythons for close to 30 years now. I am a responsible keeper and in the past I have volunteered my time to give talks to schools, boy scouts, a church, malls, museums, a zoo, etc. in efforts to promote the education of these wonderful animals.

The death of this young man is being used to attempt to persuade you and others to pass laws against ownership of these animals. I agree that this situation was tragic and was preventable, but not by banning ownership. Being a responsible reptile owner is no different then being a responsible horse owner. Every year there are over 200 people killed nation wide by horses and yet they are not illegal to own. Dogs killed 25 people in 2001 alone and these too are legal to own. I understand people fear what might seem to be an odd and uncommon pet. Did you know in the last 10 years in the entire United States only 7 people were killed from large constrictors? None of these deaths were caused by reptiles at large. Instead, all victims were either individuals voluntarily on the property where the animals were kept, or were the owners themselves at their own homes. I do not find this as being an epidemic that is out of control. All I am asking is for you to consider what I have to say. How often does this really happen across the United States? This was an extremely rare instance. However, it is not a justifiable reason to pass a new law to ban ownership of these reptiles.

Though I am not totally against some form of permit, the idea of a yearly fee of $100 per animal is on the extreme end. I am against the wording in the above bill that does not allow breeding a prohibited animal, replacing a prohibited animal, or obtaining a prohibited animal after July 1, 2007. Again I say this is extreme.

I ask you to please give my individual voice consideration. Accidents happen every day and we do not push to pass new legislation. I would like to thank you for your time and consideration. If you would like to discuss this mater further or even have hands on experience I welcome you to contact me. I would like to thank you for your time and consideration.

A very concerned Indiana resident,

James Gaspar
Lowell Indiana

Day phone: xxx-xxx-xxxx
Evening phone: xxx-xxx-xxxx

Rich...thank you for your efforts and willingness to help your neighbors.

I have one question that you might or might not be able to answer: When the bill speaks of a "permit" what wouuld this entail. Thanks
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Nick

my email...

To whom it may concern,

I was recently alerted about the proposed bill 482. I think there are some issues with outright banning “exotic” animals. I myself keep pythons. I do not keep any of the “giant” constrictors but do keep those that have the potential to exceed 6 feet. I personally have never had a close call with a snake or any other reptile, nor will I ever.

I am certain your proposed bill is due to recent mishaps concerning large snakes and other “exotics.” Truth is, these mistakes happened due to poor judgment. There are a set of rules that everyone needs to know, you do not handle a large snakes over the length of 8 feet without someone else present. The other involved alcohol. To do either of these is irresponsible.

But people do this, and now it seems, those of us who are responsible, and enjoy and love our passion of keeping snakes or as some call it herps, have the potential to be affected. To pass such a bill would be just as uneducated as those folks involved in the incidents. I can only speak for snakes, but many of the species that would be banned are no longer considered “exotic” and pretty much domesticated.

Part of the problem is you have pet shops that still get animals cheaply from importers or wherever so they can turn a profit. Pet shops are also responsible for the lack of information on the care, safety, and responsibility that is involved in keeping many animals. Again they seem to want to put as many animals out the door as they possibly can without further communication.

The other part of the problem is organizations such as the humane society. They are out spewing myths and tales that aren’t quite true about the husbandry and maintenance of reptiles and amphibians in captivity. To the consumer, there are a lot of resources and options to get quality information and quality animals from that are not taken from the wild, but have been captive bred for many generations. I, myself being a private hobbyist do breed some snakes. In fact, I have quite a bit of money invested in my specimens, caging, and proper husbandry tools, among other things.

I know I will never get rich or make a living keeping and breeding snakes, but that is not the point. The point is, I have much enjoyment in keeping my snakes. Again, I do not keep anything that poses a threat to anyone or anything if it were to escape, I take my hobby very serious and keep them in secured housing, inside a secured room. If I did keep any of the large constrictors, then I would put just as much responsibility into them as I do my current collection.

I realize that many people do not take the proper responsibilities in keeping animals, and unfortunately reptiles are included in that list. But to pass such a law would not be the wisest choice to combat the situation. The wisest choice is education. Make sure people know what they are getting into when they buy an animal of any size, shape, or form.

Indiana currently has enough laws concerning animal ownership. The great state does not need more restricting responsible citizens rights. And yes, keeping an animal is a right, as long as that animal is provided proper conditions to grow, feed and thrive. Fortunately, snakes are some of the easier animals to maintain and they thrive quite well…sometimes too well!

But passing this law is not only hurting the citizens that responsibly keep these animals, it is hurting the future generations of people that have the potential to enjoy this hobby like myself. Many people do not want a dog or a cat. I am allergic to cats, and quite honestly I am not responsible enough for a dog, I do not have the time or room for one…to bad people don’t realize this before they acquire either of these two animals, because there is a huge overpopulation problem with both.

When looking at the facts, and even looking at the ratio of people who own these animals, reptiles of any size are a very safe “pet” to have. Horses and dogs are way more dangerous than any reptile. But again, there are responsible keepers of these also, and should not be punished for those 5 people out of a million that make mistakes.

Thank you for you time.

Jason Holzworth
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The New Redpython.net

Hi Big Country. While I think you wrote a very good letter, I noticed in your second paragraph, you stated anyone handling a constricting snake over 8' needs to have someone else present. There is a lot of difference between an 8' boa or python and an 8' ratsnake or pituophis. It's not just your statement by any means. That bill itself, along with other bills states constrictors with the potential to reach 6' or greater on their list. If they want to ban any snake that might be too much of a hand full for some people wouldn't it make more scense to consider the weight of the snake instead of length? I have never heard of anyone being injured by a nonvenomous constricting colubrid. I once had an 8'2" pinesnake, that weighed at his max 9 pounds. That's the weight of a large newborn baby. He was also very manageable. Sorry to rant, and I don't mean to direct it at you, but I'd like to see constrictors over a rediculousely small length like 6' quit popping up on future bills. Constrictors over 30 pounds would make much more scense. Anyway take care.
Alan,

no worries man, we are in this together...i was just recalling the guidelines to large constrictors from the A.F.H/Vivarium...

I personally don't want to see any snake banned....regardless of size!
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The New Redpython.net

I'm with you 100%.

I posted this information in the Ball Python forum as well, but here it is again for anyone that wants to contact them concerning this issue. These are all the State Senators on the Senate Natural Resources Committee; there's an identical bill going through the House NRC as well (HB 1472)and I'll post member contact information for them once I get it all together.

__________________________________

Senator Robert N. Jackman
Indiana State Senator, District 42
200 W. Washington Street
Indianapolis, IN 46204

(317) 232-9400
(800) 382-9467
__________________________________

Senator Connie Sipes
Senate District 46

Statehouse Address:
200 West Washington Street
Indianapolis, In 46204-2785

(800)382-9467 or (317)232-9526
S46@in.gov

District Address:
1825 Ekin Avenue
New Albany, IN 47150

(812) 948-9445

__________________________________

Senator Vic Heinold
Indiana State Senator, District 5
200 W. Washington Street
Indianapolis, IN 46204

(317) 232-9400
(800) 382-9467

__________________________________

Senator Sue Landske
Indiana State Senator, District 6
200 W. Washington Street
Indianapolis, IN 46204

(317) 232-9400
(800) 382-9467

__________________________________

Senator Robert Meeks
Indiana State Senator, District 13
200 W. Washington Street
Indianapolis, IN 46204

(317) 232-9400
(800) 382-9467

__________________________________

Senator Ryan Mishler
Indiana State Senator, District 9
200 W. Washington Street
Indianapolis, IN 46204

(317) 232-9400
(800) 382-9467

__________________________________

Senator Greg Walker
Indiana State Senator, District 41
200 W. Washington Street
Indianapolis, IN 46204

(317) 232-9400
(800) 382-9467

__________________________________

Senator John M. Waterman
Indiana State Senator, District 39
200 W. Washington Street
Indianapolis, IN 46204

(317) 232-9400
(800) 382-9467

__________________________________

Senator R. Michael Young
Indiana State Senator, District 35
200 W. Washington Street
Indianapolis, IN 46204

(317) 232-9400
(800) 382-9467

__________________________________

Senator Tim Skinner
Senate District 38

Statehouse Address:
200 West Washington Street
Indianapolis, In 46204-2785

(800)382-9467 or (317)232-9849
S38@in.gov

District Address:
5899 Devonald Avenue
Terre Haute, IN 47805
(812) 466-7165

__________________________________

Senator Jim Lewis
Senate District 45

Statehouse Address:
200 West Washington Street
Indianapolis, In 46204-2785

(800)382-9467 or (317)232-9534
S45@in.gov

District Address:
774 Level Street
Charlestown, IN 47111
(812) 256-3585

FYI.....This is a very important meeting that we all should try to attend.

Latest News:

This meeting is open to the public.

AGENDA FOR: Natural Resources (HOUSE)

MEETING: January 31, 3:30PM, 156B

CHAIR: Representative Bischoff

MEMBERS: Cheatham, Grubb, L. Lawson, Pflum, Stemler, Ulmer R.M.M., T. Brown, Cherry, Eberhart, Gutwein.

AGENDA: HB 1472
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Nick

If you're thinking of moving to IN in the future, you should write as well to the committee, or at least to the committee chair.

I'll try to send an e-mail out tomorrow. I'm a lab tech in biotech, and most states despirately want people with my skills right now. My in-laws live in IN, so there's always the possibility that we might move there eventually, but I wouldn't move to a state with such restrictive laws. And the legislators need to know that they could be loosing state income and sales tax on this, not just in the form of people leaving the state or refusing to move there, but from the loss to local ecomony from things like hotel rooms and restaurants and other businesses if there are no more reptile expos.

Katrina in Maryland