Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I feel pretty dumb asking this because I thought I had the answer, but I have been told differently by some people who I know are very knowledgeable. I have always put protection around heat bulbs/emmiters that any animal (snake,lizards) could come in contact with. I was told that monitors do not get burned by touching the bulbs, but rather by staying underneath a strong concentrated heat lamp because the ambient temps are too low. Should I forget about the protection on future monitor cage building?
Nick

A few tips!

Floods not spots!
Dangling by a cord never fixed, this way if your lizards touch them the bulb bounce away, when fixed they brake or your lizard burns on them.

Usually monitors try to touch the bulb when the basking temps are too low, when proper temps are available monitors rarely try to touch the bulbs.
A common mistake is to put the bulbs way out of reach to avoid accidents, this doesn’t allow proper temps, so the monitors try to reach the bulbs, get them low enough for proper basking temps, your monitors will stop jumping on them.

The worst burns iv seen are from bulb protectors, monitors cling to them and get burned just enough that you cant see any damage, when autopsied the inner parts are clearly burned, these are the worst as its too late when you see them.

My jobiensis are notorious for jumping on bulbs, I fixed the problem by dangling them on there cords, no more broken bulbs and no more burns.

The hanging bulb seems like an interesting idea. I had not seen that before. Do you have any pics of how you made it work? Im in the process of building a couple new cages...

Sure!
If you use more then one for large monitors, space them a foot apart so they don’t touch each other if your monitor swings them.

Choose a socket your lizard have no grip on, if the can cling to it, they will burn.

The key to Jobi's post is not bulbs on cords. There is nothing wrong with that and its fine to do. But the key is, using bulbs that do not burn them for any reason. And most importantly, not letting the temps go past their understanding. Consider, just because you(think)understand something, does not mean they do.

I use fixed bulbs and do not have problems. Oh wait, I do have problems. The dang monitors continiously unscrew the bulbs??????????? got me, I was taught you need opposing thumbs to do that. But I guess that was another thing I was taught wrong, as they do it all the time, including ackies. The cure is simple, screw the bulb back in with my opposing thumbs.

Of the hundreds upon hundreds of monitors, only one had a keen eye for breaking bulbs, with his tail, a male albig. I fixed his arse(tail) Home depot has these bulb guards. Now no broken bulbs and no other problems.

Of course, you can hang the bulbs from cords. I get the feeling that is illegal(code). But who cares. A lot of my training was from building zoo enclosures, and thats illegal, but these are not zoo enclosures.

I am sure if I used hanging lites my monitors would figure out a way to tie them in knots. And figure out a way to cause me harm when I go to untie them. Or they would end up doing that circus Oley thing when I am not looking. Cheers

One strategy I use, is I try to choose bulbs that have a high glass to wattage ratio so the surface of the bulb is not scorching hot.

Does that make sense? I'm not sure if I explained that very well. Cheers

I understand having a high glass to wattage ratio, but not knowing what a normal glass to wattage ratio would be, how would I be able to identify a high one?

Hahaha - good question. If you look at a tiny bulb and see it's a really high wattage, you could probably assume that the surface gets quite hot. A large bulb that is low wattage is likely to have a comparatively cooler surface temp. For instance, a 65 watt R40 incandescent flood will have a cooler surface temp than the 120 watt version of the same bulb. Of course the only way to really learn is to test a whole lot of different bulbs.

Cheers

Just to clarify for all, when I'm talking about surface temps in the above post, I mean the surface of the bulb itself, not the surface where the lizards lay.

Should I put it up to my cheek to test if the surface temp of the bulb is too hot for my montior?

It might make my cheeks rosy.

Thanks for the tips! Ill go check them out today...

you can check bulb surface temps with a temp gun. they are all going to get really hot, but some get way up there : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Frank,

I was looking for 45 watt bulbs yesterday, and I saw outdoor halogen floods and indoor halogen floods. I thought halogen bulbs got really hot in general, but the outdoor ones seemed like the glass was thicker(kinda like what neal pointed out), than the indoor ones. Any insight as to what you use/recommend that would not cause burns. There are so many freakin lightbulbs!

the smooth faced clear bulbs are not recommended. most folks use the textured face style Halogens shown here. couple of notes though, be sure to get FLOODS, and don't get the ones with the clear center.

after using Sylvania floods for many years, i found these long life bulbs, now available at our site. with the Home Depot/Sylvania bulbs, i got about 3 months of life. with the long life bulbs, they last about a year. very nice!

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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Bulbs are bulbs are bulbs. But what is a bulb???hahahahahahaha

Incandesent is a filament in a vaccum. Filaments will burn up in oxygen. So in a vaccum they do not burm, at least not quickly.

Ok, the next step is, instead of a vaccum you use a fire retarter like halogen(remember they use halogen in good fire extinguisher) So they use halogen in bulbs so it can create more HEAT, without burning out. ITs actually a fire in a fire retarten. IT can burn hotter without burning out. That goes with many gases with similar or better fire retarding qualities.

So wattage(amperage used) and medium(halogen, vaccum, etc), equals amount of heat produced. Incandesents produce less heat then halogen per watt(amp)

Then you add a focusing medium. Halogen bulbs use a refractive lens to spread the heat(lite) this disperese the heat. A flood lamp does this(28 degrees aprox) As opposed to a spot(18 degrees) which focuss the lite(heat) in a narrow path.

And a round bulb, which disperses lite in all directions. Verses a bell shaped bulb that uses a inner coating to reflect lite(heat) in a particular direction.

SOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo oooooo, as you can see, there are many things at work.

Oh, one more, the difference between an indoor and outdoor halogen bulb is, the outdoor has thicker glass that can withstand water(rain) without blowing up. An indoor cannot take quick temperature changes, so it cannot be rained on without blowing up.

In my experience the most effiecent bulb is a 45watt halogen outdoor flood. But, it can make so much heat, if abused it can burn your monitor. Incandesents of any shape do not produce enough heat to burn(within a similar wattage) I use 65watt incandesent bell shaped bulbs, they produce a great basking area and cannot burn the monitors even if they sleep on them.

Outdoors I use halogens, but must not let the monitors actually sit on them. Its ok to touch them. but not make it comfortable for long periods.

Whew, that was tuff. Cheers

You are absolutely right, it is illegal to hang them by the cord.
Surly a reason for insurers to deny liability in case of accident.
I never even though about this.

I will have to buy the special cord designed for this purpose, and maybe replace the chain with a metal wire, in any case a call to my home depot should help with regulation.

Thanks for bringing this up!

Let me make up for this bad advising!

I use 65w outdoor floods, more resistant and longer lasting.

Wow, thanks for the wonderful in-depth explanation everyone. I had no idea there have been so many of you have have tried almost everything. From all of this this is what I got. The monitor habits, the type and location of bulb used is the deciding factor in wheather to protect the bulb. I also understand that YES monitors can be burned by bulbs, if all above factors are neglected.
Than you all again,
Nick

Since you all have been so helpful this is my rescue posted before, I assumed heat bulb contact caused the brun and was told that they do not get burned from that. Thoughts please? It is all healed up and I think I found it a new good home.

My money is on the tightly focused heat of a halogen flood or spot. Fer sure. Cheers

Its a two fold problem. First, the hot spot needs to be the size of the monitor. At least Snout Vent lenght.

Then the temps cannot get to low. There are some species that normally do not occur low temps, so they do not physically understand them. They try to heat the whole body, by heating a small area. This leads to burns. When their body temps are too cold, they cannot feel the heat. Lacies, bluetails, peachies, mangroves, are very prone to this.

An example, my monitors are constantly moving and wiggling their feet when its too hot. Or lifting the tail in the air. They understand heat. But when its beyond their ability to understand, they willfully burn themselves.

Lastly, there are some very unsuitable bulbs, like Phillips floods(common at home depot) There floods have a clear center. So they have a nice wide temp range, with a bloody hot center. This is very confusing to monitors.

One thing I learned in A&P, our own bodies have nerve tips, spaced very differently over our bodies. For instance, our finger tips are very dense close together, our backs are not. In class we would take two pins and hold them close together, then poke a part of the body, then keep increasing the distance between the pins, until the person could tell its two pins and not one. On your back, that distance was about an inch. On your finger is was less then 1/8th of an inch. The question is, what is that distance on a monitors back? It could well be several inches, which could make it very easy to understand how they get burned with very narrow hotspots. Cheers

Hi Frank, I think melinus should be included on the list of the more delicate-skinned monitors. A year or so ago, one of my melinus (feminine one) got a nasty burn on its back, very much like with that peach-throat.

The bulb was a 45 watt outdoor halogen flood, with no clear spot in the center of the face, GE brand I think. As you were saying, low body temps were likely a factor. I still use those type of bulbs, but not with melinus.

Cheers

FR,

What brand/types of bulbs do you recommend?

Thanks

look just two inches up and i have posted pics of the Halogen Flood bulbs...
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Robyn,

Can you get them in red. I use thermostates and the lights will be on at night. Thanks.

Home Depot carries some red halogens, but selection is minimal. they seem to be just red paint over a halogen, so perhaps you could create it yourself, i don't know.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Thanks guys, I was wrong I learned soo much from this post.
Thanks again,
nick