Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am taking delivery of a week-old O. hannah. I know...

* Nearly impossible
* Good luck
* It'll die

Now, with that out of the way, if you have experience with hatchling O. hannahs please contact me at lordvipertx@yahoo.com if you have any tips that you feel will be helpful.

I'm skilled with crotalus. I have a N. kaouthia. But I am FAR from being too proud to accept help from anyone who has some good, useful advice based upon experience. These are, by far, the most fascinating reptile in the world to me. I'm not worried about the investment...I'm worried about the animal.

Please help if you can.

PS: Does anyone have current contact info for "Sierra?"
http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/125

I don't have the time right now to type it all out, but I've been having luck with a hatchling for several months now... It involves roadkill ratsnake, pinkies, a blender, and tube feeding, and being able to do it quickly without stressing the snake.

I've raised a few hatchling kings and contrary to popular opinion, they are not that difficult to raise as long as you have the proper environment. Stress management is one of the most crucial components of working with this species. Give the snake time to settle in before pushing the feeding too much. Knowing something about their natural history, climate, etc will go a long ways towards keeping them long term. Contrary to the other post, who recommends tube feeding, I would personally caution you against doing that (just my philosophy; ultimately, you'll do what you feel is best for the snake); why put undue stress on a baby king cobra? On top of that, why make feeding and interacting with you something that the snakes disdains? Instead, I would try to find someone who may have some young corn snakes/ratsnakes/etc. You may have to kick start the baby into taking something live but they will on occasion take frozen/thawed as well (just move it with some hemostats). Once feeding regularly, you can then begin the process of scenting to wean the snake on to rodent prey (it takes longer than tube feeding but far less stressful on the animal and builds a better sense of trust between you and the king). This takes time and great patience. Another key aspect is proper set up, temps, humidity, etc. They can be raised in a rack system and I would recommend keeping them on paper towels initially. Or, you can go with a 24" Neodesha or something similar to that. You'll want a hide area on both the heated and unheated areas. Additionally, I would highly recommend a humidity box which can be a small plastic container (USE SMALL HIDE AREAS; the snake should have to cram itself in these) filled with slighly dampened spaghnum moss. Provide a shallow water bowl and lightly mist the entire box every 2-3 days. Additionally, I would recommend sprinkling a few dead leaves (oak, etc.) over the paper towels; a little natural enrichment helps stressed animals acclimate. Temps should range from the mid 70's on the cool end to the mid 80's on the warm end. I would offer a basking spot that reaches 88-90 degrees but make sure that the entire cage doesn't get that warm; temp. variances and opportunities to thermoregulate are critical. I am a big fan of supplemental full spectrum lighting; just my opinion with no scientific basis but I have noticed increased activity/alertness when snakes are subjected to some amount of quality light. This is difficult in a rack system but can be done with other cages. Our adults are on 12/12 photperiods with high quality UV lights for a portion of the exhibit.

Once your king reaches adulthood, I would recommend going with a semi naturalistic set up. Having a healthy microfauna (good bacteria, etc.) in a deep substrate will make your cleaning manageable of these high metabolism animals who'll crap you out of house and home. I use a combination of top soil, peat, a little sand, leaf mulch/litter and then sprinkle a deep layer of dead leaves over the surface. I spot clean (Gentle Giant Tongs work great for this use!) and then rake the substrate once a week to aerate it and it will last quite a while. I also provide natural limbs, vertical/diagonal bamboo and a couple of hides and our big king (Thai, a 14' male formerly owned by Earl Turner of Texas) is as happy as can be. Because we never forced the feeding issues early on, this snake is incredibly trustworthy around people; I would even say dog tame but because it's fully armed and loaded, we treat him with great respect (but does get regular interaction in a safe, controlled manner).

Hope this helps a bit,
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center

>>I am taking delivery of a week-old O. hannah. I know...
>>
>>* Nearly impossible
>>* Good luck
>>* It'll die
>>
>>Now, with that out of the way, if you have experience with hatchling O. hannahs please contact me at lordvipertx@yahoo.com if you have any tips that you feel will be helpful.
>>
>>I'm skilled with crotalus. I have a N. kaouthia. But I am FAR from being too proud to accept help from anyone who has some good, useful advice based upon experience. These are, by far, the most fascinating reptile in the world to me. I'm not worried about the investment...I'm worried about the animal.
>>
>>Please help if you can.
>>
>>PS: Does anyone have current contact info for "Sierra?"
>>http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/125
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Well, as this deal fell in my lap unexpectedly, how long is too long before her first meal? She is five days old, and it will take some time to get some feeders. Factor in that they need to spend some time frozen and, I presume, the clock is really ticking.

I'm currently working on contacting a source that may have them available, and already frozen.

Kerry,
I would listen to SnakesandStuff's advice, nothing wrong with Carmichaels advice mind you, but Bobby Neal will come on and he's been through this before with much success.
If the snake is 5 days old, you will want to get it acclimated and wait for it to shed out before attempting the feeding protocol. A hide box is a must, as noted before.
Basically, leave it alone, un-disturbed until it sheds out and ventures out of it's hide.

I'll agree that if a large source of feeder snakes is available, by all means that is a great food source. However, before getting my king I literally had a freezer full of roadkills and 8-10 live baby snakes on hand varying from graybanded kings, honduran milks, cornsnakes, ribbon snakes, racers, etc. As a precaution I also mixed up some snake puree in the blender.

I took 1 part roadkill ratsnake, 1 part frozen pinky mouse, 1/4-1/2 part ice (so it blends better and cuts the mixture just a tad to a thinner consistency). Once it is throughly mixed I put it in ice cube trays and froze it, busted out the snakesicles, and put them in a ziplock bag... Instant king cobra food. A 4ft. frozen roadkill ratsnakes goes a LONG way.

I was worried about stress also. However, kings seem to be pretty smart snakes, and this one actually associates the feeding tube/smell of the mixture with being fed, and it seems to be a very positive association. This king has eaten frozen thawed snakes a few times. I've fed it live snakes a few times. However, one time I was watching it go after a baby racer and the racer turned back, bit the king on the head , worked its jaw between the kings jaws, and a rolling match ensued, and after I worked the racer back off of the king cobra's jaws the king quickly retreated. I think that is much more stress than the 15 seconds that it takes me to safely tube feed the king. I make sure that the tube is well lubed and slides down nicely, and don't force anything. I'm also hoping that with it associating feeding with a specific smell then maybe as it gets older it'll scent over easier if it so chooses.

I will admit that my king isn't huge by any means, but it is probably over 2 ft long (and I think it was maybe 1.5 ft long when I got it and healthy, but much thinner than it is now) and it was when I got it on the 10th or 11th of July. If this feeding technique was too high stress for this particular individual it probably would've rolled by now. Each animal is different and learning from the animal itself what it needs and how it needs it is a very important part of herptoculture.

Both the posts and emails have been VERY helpful. Perhaps not in application yet but, definitely in enlightenment.

I knew that there were a lot of differing opinions, as well as proven techniques, from handler to handler, and snake to snake. I am trying to weight them all against each other, add in some “gut-feelings” and do what I feel is best.

It seems that one of the common denominators is attention to stress. She is approaching her first shed, and I have her in a 10 gallon aquarium in another room from my other herps (for quarantine as well as the fact that we are in and out of the herp room a lot). I have provided 78-84 degrees gradient (This seems to be the best range based upon average of inputs from advisors), two small hides (one with moist sphagnum moss), a small rock to rub, and I am trying to acquire the correct little tree branch for arboreal behaviors. Two separate individuals have told me that providing an arboreal feeding scenario is very beneficial. She has a small water dish, and is on clean paper towels for the time being. I have the front of the tank covered to provide the calmest setting I can.

Critiques?

Suggestions?

Other input?

If your snake will not eat snakes. Try geckos before force feeding. Force feeding is stressful and should be the last resort. Once they are feeding they can grow to over 6 to 7 ft in the first year.

Jim Harrison

Rob I never knew you had so much experience with kings? They're by far my favorite hot and snake in general. When did you get that big 14 footer? I never saw it back when the grass is rattling just started. I'll be back around Christmas hopefully, I"m eager to check out the Discovery Centre again

Ian