Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Heres a pic of a true Mexican Hog ( heterodon kennerlyi )adult from Southern Texas.
Its quite rare to find true Mexican hogs as most I have seen are misidentified Westerns or Plains hogs.
Enjoy.
Vin Russo
Cutting Edge Herpetological Inc.

Cutting Edge Hog Page

Those are sweet. Last year I was down in their range in So. AZ hoping to find 1 in the wild. You say yours are from a line established in Texas? How many generations from the original WCs are they? Are they more difficult than westerns to get started on rodents?

reako45

Nice south texas mexican hog! South texas kennerlyi look way different than other localities of kennerlyi and seem to be shorter and stouter also. Kevin Fisher

Have you looked at a range map? "True" Mexican hogs occur in south TX, west TX, into NM and southeastern AZ. I agree that the kennerlyi from south TX look different than those from the northern edge of the range, but so do the ones from central Mexico. How much more Mexican could they get?

I have looked at museum specimens as well as a lot of wild unpreserved ones within that range. In fact, what is interesting about kennerlyi is that they don't intergrade with nasicus even in areas where the ranges get within a few miles of each other in West Texas. This was the reason Curtis Eckermann elevated H. kennerlyi to species status.

Here's are a couple of young kennerlyi from the Davis Mts of West TX -

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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Nice!!! I've driven pandale dirt road many times in the morning in west texas hoping to find one of those beauties,but of course never found anything. Kevin

>>Nice!!! I've driven pandale dirt road many times in the morning in west texas hoping to find one of those beauties,but of course never found anything. Kevin
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

The paper did not state they don't intergrade, it showed that azygous counts were non-linear between the two. There is a difference. Also one other point, "total loreal counts did form a linear (clinal) relationship". If you consider this point, it would support intergradation. The paper also stated that they most likely form "hybrids" on "the zone of parapatry". Unfortunately this has, and always will be a "gray" area.

James Kaehn

I think that one reason why Kennerlyi may not inter breed with naisicus in the wild is because the Kennerlyi that I have bred tend to breed in the hot summer - while my nasicus breed in the early cooler spring time. Just my two cents based on my own breeding experience with both subspecies.
Vin Russo

Cutting Edge Hognose Page

Alan Tennant's SNAKES OF NORTH AMERICA has a good account of the relationships between kennerlyi and nasicus. There is no doubt they intergrade, the question is: Where do we draw the line?
H. kennerlyi is classified by having 6 or less azygous scales, and H. nasicus as having 9 or more azygous scales. Where do we place those with 7 and 8 azygous scales?

James Kaehn

There is no doubt they intergrade, the question is: Where do we draw the line?
H. kennerlyi is classified by having 6 or less azygous scales, and H. nasicus as having 9 or more azygous scales. Where do we place those with 7 and 8 azygous scales?

That's the exact issue. When I was looking at specimens in collections (I started at UTEP where Curtis would later study them), I found that you found snakes with less than 6 (generally 3, rarely more) azygous scales or you found snakes with 9 azygous scales. You don't see a clinal change, at least in Texas. You get snakes that have either 9 or 3 azygous scales just a few miles apart. I am sure there are is a narrow zone of hybridization, but I suspect that doesn't happen often.

I compare nasicus/kennerlyi to Pantherophis obsoleta/bairdii. They get really close to each other, and occasionally hybridize, but generally remain pretty seperate in those areas.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

What you're saying obviously does't match what Curtis found.
Their results showed 97% had 8 or fewer, with a range of 2-11.
Additionally, total loreals still do show a clinal relationship.
Alan Tennant's SNAKES OF NORTH AMERICA has a interesting account of the Texas area.

The paper did not state they don't intergrade, it showed that azygous counts were non-linear between the two. There is a difference. Also one other point, "total loreal counts did form a linear (clinal) relationship". If you consider this point, it would support intergradation. The paper also stated that they most likely form "hybrids" on "the zone of parapatry". Unfortunately this has, and always will be a "gray" area.

James Kaehn

Just got a pair of Vincent's Mexi's!

Nice true kennerlyi !!!!