Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How accurate is probing,how is it determined?I just had one probed and was told it is a male and was hoping to be female.

I discover my MTS sex obseving him by the back when he went to the bathroom!After he finished his business (he did it on a table so at my eyes' level)he lifted the tail as usual to clean his vent and i saw very well he is male!lol!

SOUTHERN FLORIDA CORUCIA RESEARCH CENTER (SFCRC)

Location: LEE/1.

Flavia,

Your Little Corucia is beautiful. You must be a proud 'mom'.

Inversion of the Hemipenes is a little more accurate than probing but is still VERY painful and must be done to the MAX to achieve results.

Brian
SFCRC

I didnt do anything and im not recommending him to do anything just to watch while his/her MTS goes to the bathroom!Thats how i discovered mine is a boy! Thats how i discovered 3 of my igs are males too! By observing them doing their business!

Leonardo's schedule is a mess! Sometimes he sleeps during 2, 3 days (and nights) in a row!Sometimes he wakes up during the day and sleeps during the night.Sometimes he eats, sometimes he fasts for 2, 3 days! Thats normal?

I suppose his husbandry is correct because the weather in Malaysia is very good for him.The temp in my kitchen varies from 81 to 85F , day and night. The level of humidity is always above 90%. His cage is ventilated and gets some daily sunlight.His cage has a good hiding place, large bowls of water (he likes to soak in the water)and a wood branch.

I can almost set my clock by my PTS. They are all very regular in their habits. 30 min before the light goes off, they are rustling around, but still mostly hidden. When the light goes off, they come climbing down to the food shelf within 30 min. If I get home late and have not put the food out, there is a pile of PTS on the food shelf. That messes up their schedule- trying to squeeze the food plate onto the shelf after they are there- often some will not eat that night- (if there is no food when THEY are ready to eat). Later they are all on the bottom of the enclosure soaking/pooping/bulldozing the newspaper around. I usally see each on every night either eating or drinking, and they tend to stay hidden during the day with the exception of tails and Gertie's nose. They are never climbing around during the day unless it is due to me cleaning and bothering them- If I bring them out during the day, they usually do not eat that night. I periodically bring them out for shower time, toe inspection, weighing- and guaranteed there will be a full plate of food left the next morning. I really think they have a strong preference for routine, and variation in the schedule messes them up for 12-24 hours.
If I had to guess, I bet if you handled your PTS less, and did it at the same approximate time (like when it is normally active at night, but after it has eaten and pooped) it might get into a more regular schedule and eat daily.
cheers, jess

Well my baby is with me for 3 weeks now and hasnt established (English?Sp?) his own routine yet. When he arrived home and was put in a huge cage in the kitchen (outdoors is too hot for him!Even for my iguanas is too hot and i needed to completely cover my iguanas(igs)cages!)he didnt sleep for 3 or 4 days!During the night he was pretty active but during the day although he didnt move he didnt close his eyes, either!He used to eat a lot (Starving at the petshop?Maybe)but didnt sleep at all. Now that he is more used to us and to the kitchen's noises he started to sleep very well inside his hiding box.So well that he didnt open an eye for 3 days already!

Only WHEN he decides to wake up ill be able to observe and to respect his routines!
But i can see already that MTSs are more sensible to changes than iguanas.I never had an iguana that didnt eat!I think that even during an Indonesian earthquake my igs will peacefully eat their greens! MTSs are not like that and a change in their routines can make them fast what is not good for their health i suppose!

SOUTHERN FLORIDA CORUCIA RESEARCH CENTER (SFCRC)

Location: LEE/1.

Flavia,

Skinks, such as Monkey tails and Blue tongues, can be fuzzy eaters at times. Try variety. I wouldn't get too alarmed unless this stretches out over several days straight. Yes, the Scincidae are quite a different breed from the iquanids.

Brian
SFCRC

SOUTHERN FLORIDA CORUCIA RESEARCH CENTER (SFCRC)

Location: LEE/1.

Flavia,

Yes everything sounds perfectly normal and as in Southern Florida, The Conditions in Malaysia sounds perfect for a Corucia.

Brian
SFCRC

SOUTHERN FLORIDA CORUCIA RESEARCH CENTER (SFCRC)

Location LEE/1.

Hi Flavia,

I don't know how you thought I was Critiquing you? I was just answering that other gentleman in general on some of the best sexing methods. Of course, If in the act of pooping, A hemipene is exposed, great! Alot of work saved.

I still hold you in high regard.

Brian
SFCRC

SOUTHERN FLORIDA CORUCIA RESEARCH CENTER (SFCRC)

Location: LEE/1

No problem, Sorry the mix-up occurred.

How many Lizards do you have total now Flavia?

Sincerely,
Brian
SFCRC

6 Adult Iguanas (the older is around 8 years old)
2 Baby Snake Neck Turtles
4 STAR tortoises
1 MTS
1 Bearded Dragon
1 Croc Skink
1 Leopard Gecko

I used to have + 6 RES, 5 Fly River Turtles, 1 SoftShell (all rescues that i rehab), too, but i released them already in good natural, safe Malaysian lakes.They became big and healthy so i could release them!

So i still have 2 BTS!

>>I used to have 6 RES, 5 Fly River Turtles, 1 SoftShell (all rescues that i rehab), too, but i released them already in good natural, safe Malaysian lakes.They became big and healthy so i could release them!

Are you referring to Red eared sliders, Trachemys scripta elegans and Carettochelys insculpta? I won't quess with species you mean with soft shell as there are many.

The first comes from USA, the second comes from Australia and New Guinea. Soft shells come from world wide depending on the species.

Now you CAN NOT realese non-native species in the wild no matter how good decision you think it is for them. Realesing non-native species to new habitat can be really desasterous to excisting wild life. In the worst scenario they would actually fare well and even breed. Ecosystems are rather delicate. Usually new species taking up resources of native species causes native species to decline and even become extinct (there are MANY MANY examples where species have become severely endargened or extinct because by species introduced by humans). The new species can compete for food or other resources with some species or be a too efficient predator to some species.
Also, the turtles you introduced to lakes can have parasites, bacteria ect. new to the habitat and even infect in example the native turtles in the lake.

In best scenario the turtles you took to those lakes are not doing wery well and they die.

I wouldn't even reccommend introducing native species to the habitat if their exact capturing place isn't known (and thus taken into that exact location) or they have been in contact with other species in captivity and possible infected with new kind of bacteria ect.

Realeasing species in the wild, as tempting as it might sound, possesses numerous risks. Please, think twice about doing it again. People have caused so much harm by introducing non-native species (both carelessly and throughtly tought out).

Aino
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www.helsinki.fi/~tuomola/

n/p
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Edward
Carpe diem

I think you should say that to the veterinarian responsible for the Malaysian Zoo.I think he doesnt know that and he is making the AWFUL mistake of caging all these turtles together! As you probably know there is a huge lake inside the Malaysian Zoo full of fresh water turtles from everyplace in the world. What these turtles have in common? All of them need the same water and weather temperatures. Of course you need to ask the authorization of the Veterinarian Services to release your turtles there.They will check them to see if they are OK and if the health is good, you can go ahead and release your turtle!There they will be safe without the danger of being fished or taken away!

So in that lake you can see lots of SoftShells chasing fishes, Res bullying each other, Amboiensis trying to mate or eating plants and (hopefully) FRTs diving during the evening. Its like a paradise where the turtles dont have afraid of the human beings and dont try to hide when we come closer to them!

It was Dr Vellayan, the Director of the Veterinarian Services of the Malaysian Zoo, that asked me several times to give to the Malaysian Zoo my turtles.He knows me as the " Brazilian lady that lives in Bangsar" and he has been in my house several times to check all my reptiles!

Dr Vellayan is crazy about my baby Snake Necks and i promised him as soon they grow up a little ill give them to the Malaysian Zoo.He promised me he will reserve a special place for them!

Hey Flavia, don't listen to the guy who can't agree more fully!!!

Whoops Flavia, I forgot n/p!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

n/p
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Edward
Carpe diem

n/p

>>I think he doesnt know that and he is making the AWFUL mistake of caging all these turtles together! As you probably know there is a huge lake inside the Malaysian Zoo full of fresh water turtles from everyplace in the world.

No, I did not know that. And even if I did, I did not know that you were talking about a zoo. "Good natural, safe Malaysian lakes" sounded like you released them in the wilds, which ofcource my rant was all about and naturally it didn't have anything to do with zoo's policy to mix species.
I'm cald to hear that you didn't release them in the wilds.

Sorry for the mix up,

Aino
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www.helsinki.fi/~tuomola/

Read what Aino has to say. I just hope someone who may not know better that reads what you said will think that that is a good thing to do, because it is not.

While I to am very relieved to here that these animals are in a zoo lake and not in the wild, I still find it unnerving that they (the zoo) are mixing all of these species. It is not a policy that I would advocate. But that is up to the zoo. It is good that they are being checked out first, but that does not by any means guarantee that pathogens that may be natural to one turtle will not be spread to others who may not have any immunity to that specific pathogen. Sorry for the confusion on my part.

SOUTHERN FLORIDA CORUCIA RESEARCH CENTER (SFCRC)

Location: LEE/1.

Probing is a viable method for many Reptiles, but NOT for Corucia zebrata! You end up only with one pissed skink.
It is best to use the other, non-stressful methods with this species in combination. (i.e. The Male Shed Skin Method (Chris,2003), The C/A method (SFCRC/2002), Behavior, etc.)

Sincerely,
Brian
SFCRC

What sort of professional probed your PTS?
Probing is a generally acurate way to sex most snakes and some other types of reptiles, but NOT PTS.
From info accumulated from reading and talking to people experienced with PTS, probing this species is NOT a reliable way to determine sex, and can be outright damaging to the male.
***Hopefully you have not inadvertantly had your nice PTS sterilized***
They are too strong and their muscles are too tight in an awake animal to allow probing. If they said it was a male, maybe it is- or maybe you have a female with now perforated cloacal pouches. They have a 50/50 chance of being right.

Anyway- snakes have docummented scale/scute lengths to probe to and compare to- I have not heard of this for a PTS, and they don't really have good under tail scutes to count- they have overlapping scales there. I would love to know how they decided it was a male.
Tail base abscesses due to overaggressive probing are not uncommon in snakes- watch your nice PTS carefully for the next month or two for swelling in this area and ability to defecate normally.

You can post a photo of your skink (looking down on it) and we can all guess at it's gender if it is an adult. Brian has a nifty ratio and he can measure on a good photo, and give you a pretty accurate determination. I figured out the sex on my adult PTS by behavior, and it was confirmed with babies.
Cheers, Jess B

I hope that no harm was done,I questioned the vet and it did not seem he put any force,so I HOPE no harm was done .Maybe others will learn from my mistake.I know I did.Also thanks for the information on other ways to sex.And I will keeep an eye open for any swelling. I learn,sometime easy sometimes hard. Larry

well, if there was minimal force, likely there was no harm done- and perhaps you have an unusually 'relaxed' fellow. I am suspicious of the accuracy of the procedure, but it doesn't sound like there was any harm done if there was no big struggle. We would love to see a picture of your PTS. These are some of mine-

SOUTHERN FLORIDA CORUCIA RESEARCH CENTER (SFCRC)

Location: LEE/1.

Hi Jess,

Beautiful Pic. If that is Gertie, I Love her Internostral Black spot.

Thanks for sharing,
Brian
SFCRC

SOUTHERN FLORIDA CORUCIA RESEARCH CENTER (SFCRC)

Location: LEE/1.

Hi Jess,

On Probing: VERY well put. Much better than my wording further up the pike. I concur absolutely.

Sincerely,
Brian
SFCRC