Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I think my new blood has RI (I actually dont know what it even stands for but I have seen it labeled RI)

So my question is how serious is it? Should I be taking it to the vet like now? Cause I think our local vet doesnt know about herps and I want someone who does. And so that means I have to drive like 60-70 miles to the city and get an appointment in there. Which isnt easy right now cause I just blew my cars radiator and dont have the cash to fix it yet.

So I wanted to know more about RI. How serious it is, what can I do to help prevent it from happening again, is it serious enough to have to see a vet, or will it clear up on its own if I change whatever made it happen in the first place.

Snake symptoms are bubbles every once in a while at the nostrils and occasionally at the mouth, sometimes wheezing with breathing.

I would recomend that you find a way into the city and that in the mean time you lower the humidity to the low end of the acceptable range. It will not clear up on its own and the symptoms you list sound advanced.
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"yeah, eagles have feathers hanging off of them too and I don't smoke --- out of them!" PS it was a dream catcher!

So like to the point where my snake could die, serious? I am getting a vehicle for the morning, but I cant tonight.

Am I looking at alot of money to help or medicate this problem also? I havent ever had a snake to take to the vet, so I dont even know what to do.

I believe that you should never expose blood pythons to lowered humidity levels at anytime, especially when they are showing signs of a respiratory infection. Their lung tissue appears to be more susceptible to desiccation, and subsequent damage and infection than other python species, even P. curtus and P. breitensteini. I have seen numerous bloods develop RI's when exposed to humidity levels below 50 to 60% even when the temps were in an acceptable range. I have also seen some individual bloods that have developed mild RI's, respond and recover when the temps and humidity have been increased slightly, as in 90 F and 70 to 80% relative humidity. Also, it must be remembered that as with any animal, not all individual bloods have the same immune system activity, as some are in compromised condition, and/or are genetically more prone to RI's than other individuals. I would be interested in the temps and humidity that this individual was being maintained in. Bubbles and excess mucous in the mouth are usually the first signs of an RI, but the coughing and wheezing would indicate that it could be progressing. If the mucous becomes thick and stringy, the RI has progressed to an advanced stage. At that point, a good reptile vet would be a wise choice.

Kelly

I agree with Kelly. Also, dry conditions can cause respiratory distress leading to excess mucous development as the body tries to lubricate the lungs. This is experienced by travelers on aircraft where the humidity levels drop to below 10% ambient. I found that spraying the enclosure to increase humidity but avoiding saturation that leads to mold/fungal growth helps.
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I am still trying to get in to see the vet in the city. I will up the humidity a little more. I never downed it, but I did up my temps about 5 more degrees. She seems VERY active right now after just the temp up. A happy active, not a distressed one. I will up the humidity, and keep you guys posted. Also I will be contacting the vet just to see what his words of advice are also.

Thank you again for you guys help. I have only managed to be on this board for like 3 weeks, but have already found it an invaluable tool!

I too agree with Kelly and Rich..Now because I've been MIA for 10 years I have a question(s)..Has any research been done on
vitamin and mineral therapy ?? If the animal is still eating
would it be benefitial to gut load the food item with vitamin C and some zinc ?? It was said to me many years ago that due to the mass that these animals carry that they are some of the most difficult to turn around from a case of RI..Is baytril still the drug of choice today or has something new come along??
The drugs we use are crossovers from what we use on ourselves so I would suspect theres something new but don't know..The more gentle treatment that can be provided the better..
Stress itself can be a killer..So as Kelly and Rich stated
proper temps and humidity are crucial..Hydration of the animal
is critical..Has anyone done any work on supplying something such as pedialite for drinking ?? Boosting electrolites and
such?? I know in severe cases the animal will be injected with
fluid to bring it back to a hydrated state..But again I like a gentle less stessful approach..
Tim.

If the symptoms become intensive enough to warrant a visit to the vet, a swab needs to be done to determine the organism involved. This will prescribe the best medication, whether it be Baytril, Amikacin, Ceftazidime, etc... To determine the dosage, the snake needs to be weighed...AND the drug needs to be provided intravenously. Gut-loading food items will not provide the needed effect. A vet should be able to instruct you in how to inject the animal (usually subcutaneous, upper body) and then send you home with prepped hypodermic syringes for future injections.

Good luck-
Jim Lineberger
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"He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he can never lose." (quote from Jim Elliott, "Shadow of the Almighty"

My sanke just got to liking me and you want me to stick it with a needle? lol I have a feeling I'm going to get my first bite if I do that. If it makes the snake better that ok I guess.

I guess my question for you guys now is, what would warrant the snake being bad enough for a vet visit? I upped Humidity, and temp and today snake seems like its more active (well this morning anyway) and isnt wheezing now. Still ahs the occasional bubble from the nostril, but no wheezing. So do I still take it to the vet?

I know vet visits are important, but I also dont want to go running in there like a madman if she is clearing up.

When I wrote to lower humidity I meant (and wrote) to the low end of the acceptable range for bloods, not dry as the subsequent posts seemed to have interpreted my post. My question is regarding differences in ball and blood husbandry. Those of us on the ball forum disagree on how to deal with R.I. in balls probably in part because they are more tolerant of diverse conditions than are bloods. You guys all pretty much agree on raising the humidity for a blood with R.I.? Is there anything else that you guys can tell me that isn't in a basic care sheet about bloods that is different that similar situations in balls?
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"yeah, eagles have feathers hanging off of them too and I don't smoke --- out of them!" PS it was a dream catcher!

quote "Is there anything else that you guys can tell me that isn't in a basic care sheet about bloods that is different that similar situations in balls?"

That could go in soooo many different directions, from feeding to reproduction, illnesses, caging, etc. Reading through this forum & other blood/stp-oriented sites will probably help you find more information than just saying "tell me everything that's different."

Welcome to the world of bloods & short-tails by the way...they're WAY more fun than ball pythons!!!! (and ball pythons are lots of fun!)

K~

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Bloodpythons.com - Whats YOUR Blood Type?

I kind of realized that after I hit "Post Message" Thanks for the welcome. I don't have a blood in my collection yet but I plan on rectifying that this summer. Till then I will be reading posts on this forum as much as possible. Thanks for the reply.
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"yeah, eagles have feathers hanging off of them too and I don't smoke --- out of them!" PS it was a dream catcher!

I got in a 'captive bred' (it was obviously a wild caught) adult male a couple years back. It had a RI which had progressed to the point of wheezing. My vet gave me medication to drop in the snakes nostrils. Just a drop of fluid in each one. I can't remember the name of it for the life of me. It worked great though. On the second day of use, there were no more obvious symptoms.

Anyone heard of this?

In a low humidity situation and in the initial stages of lung tissue irritation, if the humidity is slightly increased and provided the temps are good, you could very well keep the condition from progressing into a bacterial infection. As Rich stated, the bubbles forming from the nares could be the initial symptoms of irritation, and not always the onset of an RI. If the bubbles decrease and the mucous becomes thicker, or opaque, then you definitely know the condition has advanced into an RI. However, the appearance of consistent bubbles is the first clue that your environmental conditions need to be adjusted.

I am not sure what the drops were that you used, but a bacterial infection would not respond to antibiotic treatment that rapidly. My guess would be that the medication relieved the symptoms of the problem, and then the more favorable environmental conditions that you provided helped resolve the situation.

Kelly

Ok I jumped temp to 88-90 during the day, humidity is still being a pain to control, but its getting better, and it is roughly 70 percent right now.

Snake symptoms decreased even more by the end of today. I havent heard a wheeze out of it, and although I havent been there the whole time watching the bubbles are very few and far between.

I know I'm not out of the woods yet, but I think I've (meaning you guys) have dodged a bullet on this one.

Thank you guys immensly.

If you have a screen top on your enclosure you can cover two thirds or so with plastic or a towel and be better able to control humidity.
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"yeah, eagles have feathers hanging off of them too and I don't smoke --- out of them!" PS it was a dream catcher!

I currently have a screen with plastic covering about 2/3's of it. I am going to Home Depot today to get a piece to fit in place of it. I am just going with solid plastic with a few holes drilled in it, and one spot cut out for the lamp.

just out of curiosity, what part of the country do you live in? Must be pretty dry there!
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"yeah, eagles have feathers hanging off of them too and I don't smoke --- out of them!" PS it was a dream catcher!

The desert of Utah. Very dry. Especially during the winters, suprisingly enough. We get like three feet of snow and have 2% humidity to go with it! Its very hard to keep the levels up in the tank. I'm learning quickly though!

makes me feel lucky to live in Massachusetts! We run between 75 and 80% in the summer and only drop into the 20% range in the winter. You have a water bottle for misting right? I think I remember reading that you were misting above. A good water bottle will be your best friend in that climate!
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"yeah, eagles have feathers hanging off of them too and I don't smoke --- out of them!" PS it was a dream catcher!

Yeah I mist when it starts to drop onto like 60-65 range. I am misting from above I dont know how else to get and keep humidity for this time.

I dont thinks its actually 2% but you get the idea. I guess I exaggerate a little! lol

I'm kind of like johnavilla; I don't have any bloods or short tails of my own, but they are on the "some day" list. So, I can't give you any advice that would specifically help you with this species, but I grew up keeping snakes, and after spending a whopping total of four years of my life without reptiles have figured out that this is actually an incurable addiction.

One little tidbit that I use for my Ball Pythons, which a vet clued me in on (doesn't make it perfect, but I am happy with it) is that I use modified unglazed terra cotta flower pots for hidey holes for my BPs. Since terra cotta is pretty porous, when soaked or misted it slowly releases humidity over time - this helps to even out some of the humidity fluctuations that inevitably occur between mistings.

Making the hides is a little bit labor-intensive but not terrible. I prefer to use "azalea" pots, as they tend to be shorter and fatter than the "standard" flower pots. You'll want to use a size that allows your snake to feel slightly "cramped" by human standards, since that means security to snakes. To modify the pot, I use a rasp (it's a wood rasp, so it's not so nice for the tool) or a ceramic-specific "hole saw" bit in an electric drill to enlarge the hole at the bottom of the flower pot (this becomes the top of the 'hidey hole'). I also like to cut a semi-circle into the rim of the pot, but I have only been able to do this successfully by hand with a rasp. Either way, the fired terra cotta is still a pretty soft material, so it doesn't take too long - but it is very dusty; the dust stains, and it can't be great for your own respiration, so wear clothes you don't care about and some kind of a duct mask. Once you have the "doors" cut, make sure that you haven't left any sharp edges (if you only have a coarse rasp, sandpaper can also take down the rough spots). Soak the pot in water (completely submerged), until no more bubbles come out of the clay. This is to rinse away any lingering dust and to get the pot its first good dose of humidity. For my BPs, I soak their hides about once a week, when I spot clean their enclosures and feed. I also mist once or twice daily, making sure that most of what I spray into the cage ends up on the terra cotta hide. I would make a random guess that soaking the hide every other day would be good for a Blood (in addition to misting).

If the hides get dirty (pooped on), I soak them for a while, then rinse them well under running water, and rub away any of the nastiness. I suggest you NOT use soap, since you won't be able to rinse it out of the terra cotta. If you need to disinfect it, I suggest using distilled white vinegar, as it can kill bacteria, rinses away easily, but also shouldn't hurt your snake's skin if it is not completely rinsed away. Vinegar is also CHEAP!!

Good luck to you!! The experts have already given you the best advice for the care of your snake. I hope that this might also prove to be of some use.
~Rebecca

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0.1 Dumeril's Boa '04 (Courtney)
1.2 Ball Pythons
[1.0 '05 Orange Hypo (Specter)]
[0.1 '05 Het Orange Hypo (Sylvia)]
[0.1 '03 Normal (Sue)]
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40lb darling lap dogs:Brandy&Mara)

I never would have thought of that.
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"yeah, eagles have feathers hanging off of them too and I don't smoke --- out of them!" PS it was a dream catcher!

hey thats exactly what I do with my terracota hides. I use the bottom style dish ones and they make very tight spaces for them. My blood absolutely loves it in there. I used to have a pot but she wouldnt stay in there at all once I used the plate style.