Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone buy cuttlebone in bulk? If so, where do you get it from?

Thanks in advance.

Consider being consistent with environmental convictions and don't buy, or advocate the buying of, cuttlebone. Marketed calcium powder for reptiles is derived mostly from bivalve shells, which are in many cases managed as sustainable fisheries. Many harvested bivalves are cultured and the shells have long been important BY-PRODUCT material for calcium in poultry diets. RepCal and others use this calcium source.

One small powder can go further than many, many cuttlebones (cuttlebone being the PRIMARY product of cuttlefish harvest, meaning, the reason for one more intimidating marine fishery) and doesn't cause the destruction of cuttlefish species. As for beak wear, should it be the world's cuttlefish species' problem that box turtle beaks aren't perfectly adapted to captive, artificial diets?

Not that a species should necessarily be given extra consideration for its intelligence, but cuttlefishes seem a bit more cognizent than box turtles. It's not as though we as a species have ever based our rights on higher intelligence, hey?

Rep-Cal is made from oyster shells, which is an even less ethical choice than cuttlebone. You should do some more homework.

Ah, c'mon, you know better than that. Oysters are bivalves, and there is some protocol for their farming and collecting. Lots of investigation for some degree of sustainability. There's more control over their use than with cuttlefish. Show me an impact assessment that's been done for the world's cuttlefish stocks and I'll consider it. It's no good to say something's a less damaging alternative just because impact assessments for it don't exist.

It's easy to slip into double standards when we deal with captive animal issues, especially when we do it under the name of conservation. Do consider, oysters are not harvested for their shells, but rather, everything inside the shells. The shell is a marketable side perk. It's sold because it can be used instead of thrown out. If the shell couldn't be used, all those oysters would still be harvested. Were it not for your demand, bird keepers, and part of the jewelrey industry, there wouldn't be much initiative for cuttlefish removal because the primary demand (cuttlebone) would be gone.

Use chicken eggshells if you demand a crunchy calcium source. Another byproduct, also somewhat controlled. But, do we use freerange chicken eggs only? White or brown eggs? Oh, bother!

So I guess you can't recommend a source for bulk cuttlebone. Thanks anyway.

Where are you getting the information from regarding Cuttlefish being harvested primarily for cuttlebone? Everything that I can find states that, like Oysters, cuttlebone is merely a by-product of the food industry. In fact, one article states that harvesters off of India are having trouble finding avenues for the cuttlebone and viscera. They're exporting the Cuttlefish meat for food, and discarding the rest.

That's curious, and I'd be interested to see the article.

What catches me is the irony in a box turtle "conservationist" disregarding the welfare of another group of species for a simple, bulk, calcium fix. Funny, the suggestion of a neutral source via eggshells wasn't addressed; thought that's what a conservationist would be interested in.

You do have to see the humor in this. Those claiming to be active conservationists should try to excercise purpoted convictions on a large scale, past the species they have personal interest in as garden pets. Then again, everyone's free to selectively excercise values at their own discretions.

Here's the link.
http://www.muthunagar.com/news/cuttlefish.htm

It's not very well written, as I'm certain that English is not the author's primary language.

I don't know what to think of this article and the others I found, which is primarily why I asked for your source of information. I'd gladly refrain from purchasing cuttlebone if it was shown to me to be wasteful. I've always assumed that it was a by-product similar to Oyster shells.

My box turtles simply refuse egg shells. They all end up in the compost heap.

You didn't mention where your information came from. It's important, especially when making an accusation of an ethics violation. That's a very serious charge.

"I've always assumed that it was a by-product similar to Oyster shells. "

It pretty much is: cuttlefish is harvested in most parts of the world for food. It's quite tasty. I don't think much of the 'fish' goes to waste at all...even the ink is used.

I have found a few sources that sell cuttlebone in 5lb. boxes at a reasonable price, so I'll be giving one of them a try. And I don't think I'll have to rent storage space to house a 5lb. box of the stuff.

My point is, if there is a (partly, at least) farmed source (oysters) for an element (calcium), why choose a questionable wildstock-only fishery of any form? Ex situ conservation via rearing of box turtles by hobbyists is not a reality when this is the opportunity cost. I hope you can understand this.

And for Ken, neat article. Good to know we're relying on species not yet recognized by science in such bulk for, uh, "tasty" food. I guess that answers that about how well-assessed any impacts on cuttlefish stocks are. How many of those animals' bones does it take to fill a 5 pound box?

"How many of those animals' bones does it take to fill a 5 pound box?"

I'm hoping quite a few...that's the reason for buying in bulk.

I'm going to hazard a guess that 10 cuttlebones equal a pound. Depending on the size maybe less or more. I'm guessing this from 4 pack having a shipping weight of .4lbs.
None of the local stores that sell bird supplies have cuttlebone, so maybe buying some in bulk wouldn't be a bad idea
I found 1lb for $6 and 5lb for $23, did you find better prices?

thanks for the guesstimated breakdown on bones per pound.
I found a source that lists their price for a 5lb box at $16.24. No idea on shipping yet, but that may be high.
I'll probably be placing an order tomorrow, so I'll find out then.

Cheers!

"None of the local stores that sell bird supplies have cuttlebone, so maybe buying some in bulk wouldn't be a bad idea"

Huh? I find it at Walmart, Petco and Petsmart? Not in bulk, but Petsmart has packages, I think, of 4 or 5.

When I can make it to the city I usually pick some up petsmart, but I'm out on the western side of the state that that's a good hour away (even with all the stuff built up on the west side of the city).
Local walmart and kmart are smaller, so they really don't carry much aside from dog and cat products. Elk city is a bit of a drive too, and I can't remember if the super walmart there carried it.

Oh wow, I didn't realize we were neighbors!

Yeah, its not really fair to compare what we
have in the larger cities. I guess I take petsmart
and the supercenters for granted!

"Funny, the suggestion of a neutral source via eggshells wasn't addressed; thought that's what a conservationist would be interested in."

I already use eggshells. I'm not looking for a source for those because I already have one.

Sorry, but that type of stuff sounds oxymoronic to me, especially when not *all* living things are equally respected by some advocating animal ethics, yet promote murders, and destruction of property of some who have not agreed with their teachings...

Wanda

Yawn......this kind of environmental extremism is REALLY tedious.

"but cuttlefishes seem a bit more cognizent than box turtles"

And don't even BEGIN to try and tell me that ANY kind of fish,
let alone a mollusk, is more "cognizant" than a box turtle.

You clearly haven't spent much time with box turtles.

If cuttlefish were harvested solely for their bone, I might be bothered by that, but they aren't and they aren't endangered, so PLEASE don't be hijacking our questions with environmental extremism.

You're right about pointing out the error in comparing an animal like a Cuttlefish with a Box turtle. Cuttlefish do appear to be very intelligent, but everything about them is so different. "Intelligence" is largely subjective. There are different types of intelligence. Most Zoologists seem to fall back on brain size. I've been unable to locate any information about the size of a Cuttlefish brain. I've found, "very intelligent" and "well-developed nervous system". I think that those are comparisons to other invertebrates, not necessarily vertebrates.

Cuttlefish are very different from true fish. Think of them like a squid or octopus. Is anyone else craving calamari?

I took Invertebrate Zoology in College and we studied Cephalopods in detail. In fact, it was so much detail it became insanely boring. It was hard to retain the information. It was mainly just Anatomy and Physiology stuff, with none of the information that I find interesting (behavior and natural history). It's funny, this thread has forced me to read up on Cuttlefish, and I've quite enjoyed it. I have learned more about Cephalopods in the past two days than I did in one entire semester.

They may be smart, but they obviously have no fashion sense...I mean, stripes AND polka dots...

"They may be smart, but they obviously have no fashion sense...I mean, stripes AND polka dots..."

*Snork*

The black and white with hot-pink accents is pretty natty, though!

I think you hit the nail on the head with "there are different types of intelligence". Box turtles came about well before automobiles, so unfortuantely they aren't always very smart about watching for cars....they didn't need to be for millions of years. But they have very strong instincts in other areas.

And I am still in awe with the way they respond to me, and interact with me. Some people say they don't make good pets. I beg to differ. No they aren't quite like a dog or cat, although sometimes they remind me of one or the other, but as far as reptiles go, they are fun and I do feel a connection with them. I love fish, but I've never felt a connection with a fish.

And, I wouldn't want anyone to think I don't appreciate ocean wildlife, I very much do. But I do think responsible fishing of some species is ok, as long as there is a legitimate use for them, preferably based on food.

I love the picture you posted, and I've learned more about cuttlefish also!

Try ebay.

Wanda

Thanks, I checked there (and a whole bunch of different sources). I found a source for 25lb boxes, which makes me wonder just how big that box would be, what with cuttlebone being so lightweight.

Big is an understatement. It would be HUGE! I found a 5lb. box for about 40 bucks. Nowhere does it state an approximate count.

Ok after all this I don't know if anyone would want to read this but.. if there is any chance a person wants to use oyster shell here goes.
I found out when we adopted the tortoise almost 5 years ago that you can buy 25lb bags of it for around 5 dollars in a feed store. It's bagged in huge quantities for horses.
I thought we needed calcium carbonate so I went to a feed store & asked for that. They'd never heard of it LOL!
Told my vet at the time who used to be a large animal vet & he said Uhh you said the wrong thing. He said you can't just go in the feed store & ask ole red (a name he chose for any feed store clerk) for calcium carbonate he won't know what you mean. He said ask for oyster shell.
So DH stops in a feed store on his way home from work one day & comes home with a 25lb bag of oyster shell. In big bold letter it said oyster shell, right underneath that in smaller but bold letters it said Calcium Carbonate. bwahahahahahaha

Turned out I didn't need it for the tortoise because I didn't realize at the time that our soil is very high in calcium already.. and the chunks of it are so big she won't eat it anyway.
The hermit crabs like it though.

IF anyone would want to try that instead of cuttlebone, farm animal feed stores have more stuff I can use than I knew.
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PHRatz

"the chunks of it are so big she won't eat it anyway. "

I need this for hatchlings, so chunks won't work for me, either.

Thanks for the 2 cents. Feed stores are great, I agree: they sell a ton of useful stuff.

Definately wouldn't work for hatchlings. In fact I ground a big bunch of it up in the food processor & that's what I use for the crabs.
I have a 10 gallon Sterilite tub still full of this stuff from 2002. It's going to take years to use it all up. :-x
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PHRatz

http://www.cuttleboneplus.com/cuttlebones.html

Thanks!

I get mine here:
http://www.birdalog.com/index.cfm/S/46/N/254/Cuttlebone.htm

It is 26.95 for the 5 lb box

on the item above this, it says: Cuttlebone - 6-8" - 6 pieces per 1/2lb.

I have never counted tho lol
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Man is the only animal that blushes ~ or NEEDS to!

We Survive together ~ or not at all.