Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all, finally I was lucky enough to have my girlfriend allow me to own a snake! Luckily the pet store down the road just recently got a hold of some baby Brazilian Rainbow Boa's. This is my setup,

20 long tank
Screen top 3/4 covered with plastic, (metal clips to keep tight)
Im running a 60watt red bulb 24/7
I have a large soaking pool under the light along with an enclosure. Under the enclosure I have an adhesive under tank heat pad.
For a substrate I have the green reptile mat/rug. I also purchased moss which I keep damp to help with humidity.
For fun I threw in a sand blasted grape vine which he actually enjoys curing up on once in a while.

Heres my questions.

I have the temperature/ humidity gauge located in the exact middle of the tank. The highest Ive been able to get the humidity is 60%. Mind you its located about 3/4 the way up the tank. So Im hoping that at lower levels of the tank its higher. As far as temperature, Im holding 77*F in the middle. Obviously its warmer under the heat lamp.

My final concern is the adhesive under tank heat pad. It gets pretty warm. The green mat does alot to absorb it. But should I be concerned with the snake getting too hot? Is it smart enough to know. Hey my enclosure is to hot. Im not going to hang out in there and either soak or go to the cool side of the tank? I just dont want to see him getting injured by it.

Ive had him now for about 3 days. He ate a pinky last night with no problem. So Im thinking hes comfortable or he would not of ate. ( BTW I did put in him another container to feed him, hes also very tame and loves to curl up around my arm )

Hes about 25" inches or so. So hes still young.

Looking for advice, I appreciate it alot being new to this community. Thank You!

It should be smart enough not to get too hot . . thats what they do. As long as it cannot get into direct contact with the heat source (burns etc) it should be fine.

a 20L is pretty big for a young BRB, make sure that little guy has a good hide box
-----
Russ
1 Brazillian Rainbow Boa (< 1 year old)
1 Rosy Boa (G/F's Snake)

Somehow i have to feed both?!
Melbourne, Fl

Oh he does. Its a stone imatation cave, which I put damp moss in also. Its located above the section of the tank where the under side heater is located. Also the Grabe Vine I have is rather large, ive seen him curl up under it a couple times.

My main question. Humidity.

Middle of the tank about 3/4th up from the bottom. The guage is reading 60. Is it ok to believe that the humidity level is higher lower to the surface? I just want to make sure its not too dry. Plus he'd use the soaking bowl before dying of dehydration due to low humidity correct ?

Sorry for all the questions. I just want to make sure Im doing everything right.

I totally understand. I am the same way with my snake.

I would say it is better to be safe then sorry. I would cover up the entire top of the tank with plastic to hold humidity better. Also i would spray water into the tank like mad till that humidity went high. I've never heard of a BRB suffering from too much, so do what you can to get a lot in there.

My humidity gauge is at the top and it reads 70% all the time. . .
-----
Russ
1 Brazillian Rainbow Boa (< 1 year old)
1 Rosy Boa (G/F's Snake)

Somehow i have to feed both?!
Melbourne, Fl

So I should use a plexiglass top and then shine the red heat buld thru that? Thats my concern for not covering the entire top. The portion that is screen is where the lamp is. I mean I could cover is all accept for where the light is shining in. Being that its only a 60watt bulb. The light housing doesnt get all that hot to be a concern.

Thank you for the advice.

Im getting mixed replies about the under side tank heater. Is the green reptile mat enough of a " buffer " to not allow the snake to get burnt? Thanks again. I really appreciate it.

I use a plexiglass top on my 20L's and it works great. If yours is long enough to cover the whole thing that is cool. Being that the dimensions are like 30 by 12.5, I use about 1/4 of an inch slit all the way down the 30 side. If you cover up the whole thing or leave a gap on the 12 side and the heat pad is on it will be like heating up a partially closed box and you will have condensation all the time on your glass-good for humidity and bad for mold if you can't change it every week or so. This has a something to do with ambient air too but a 20L you can't see through is not good. As the heating pad goes, they get really hot and I believe I measured a 6x8 at 105 and it wasn't on but ten minutes with no top on and so you might want to check the temp. right on your green mat as this tell you what temp you are. I don't know if using a 60 watt bulb and uth together is good, it might be to much heat as I use just the uth on a dimmer and check temps when the weather gets low. Most people use them red bulbs for at night as to not disturb their night cycle. I know Dave uses or used 60 watt bulbs (not red)for his oak breeding cabinets. Check the temps on the mat with an accurate temp. gauge. I have 3/8 thick plastic but can imagine a bulb putting off heat on anything thinner is gonna start to get blurry and maybe melt in a month or two. Something to remember though if you put gauges in the tank, put them as low to the mat and on the hot side corner as possible so you know temp. or hum. down there. This is where the snake will spend most of it's time as opposed to a tree up high so might as well get more accurate readings but a temp. gun would be nice for you too. I don't even spray my cages (excep in shed) but just let the uth heat it up and it does provide lots of humidity IF the ventilation is controlled. As long as their is a temp. gradent it should be fine but put a hide on the cold side just in case that uth is to hot for 'em. Hope it helps.
Bob

Nice thanks for the reply. When I get home from work Im going to have to work on making it more humid. I just had my girl call me to let me know what it was reading. In the middle of the tank its at 76*F which is good. But the Humidity was 50. After she sprayed some mist in it, it rose quickly to 60 - 61. So Its looking like too much is escaping out of the top. I might just grab some plastic wrap for now and cover as much as I can. See if that does the trick. If I can then hold more moisture, then I know thats my issue.

I was thinking. What if I kept a smaller pool over TBH and put some moss in it. Im thinking the heat combined with the moss to retain moisture should also assist in keeping the envirorment humid.

But like you all pointed out. It does appear that right now, the top screen partially covered is not doing the trick.

Apprecaiting the advice! More is always welcome

Sounds like you're headed in the right direction. Remember humidity is a factor of evaporation and dissipation. You not only have to get the water in the air (evaporation) you also have to keep that airborne water inside the enclosure. Once you have it better under control, you can make fine adjustments by simply moving the water bowl more or less over the heat to change the amount of evaporation.

As Bob mentioned I used 60W bulbs for many years and produced hundreds of babies in that environment. They were used for daytime heat with a night time off period for cooling. Cages are in a insulated room that never gets cold so I could do a night drop by simply turning off the individual cage heat. I've just recently installed radiant heat panels on all of my oak BRB breeding cages. Here are some pre-RHP pics. The tubes on the sides are for breeding season, I can connect several cages together with them.

-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, selectively bred from good stock)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
12.25 BRB
12.14 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Hey, welcome to the rainbow forum.

I replied to your post on the main boa forum earlier, was in a hurry and had not even looked into the rainbow forum and wanted to reply with something since I saw a couple of problem areas.

Again from my other reply:

The red bulb is not needed unless you have the tank in a cold room. Rainbows do very with little to no direct light. Only reason to use a bulb is if you need the additional heat load to keep the tank to the correct temps.

IMO, all heat sources need to be under some kind of control. VERY much so with the UTH type. They can and will get too hot for a baby snake and ther is the definate possibility it could get under your carpet and come into direct contact with the glass directly above the heat element. Temps need to be measured where the snake is.....ground floor. You may very well find those temps are higher than you think.

For heat control, you have three basic options:

Dimmer/rheostat - you could either wire up your own from standard components including a wall light switch dimmer or there are extension cords with built in slide dimmers

On/Off thermostat - like Ranco, they simply turn the heat on and off to keep the probe at the right temp

Proportional Thermostat - Like Helix, will apply partial power and raise/lower slightly to maintian temps. IMO the best option

I don't measure my humidity, I also don't mist the cages. I just set them up to be humid all the time. Has worked well for me.

Oh yeah, get an infrared temp gun, GREAT for checking temps since you can point anywhere and get instant readings. I even measure the temps of my snakes that way.

>>Hey all, finally I was lucky enough to have my girlfriend allow me to own a snake! Luckily the pet store down the road just recently got a hold of some baby Brazilian Rainbow Boa's. This is my setup,
>>
>>20 long tank
>>Screen top 3/4 covered with plastic, (metal clips to keep tight)
>>Im running a 60watt red bulb 24/7
>>I have a large soaking pool under the light along with an enclosure. Under the enclosure I have an adhesive under tank heat pad.
>>For a substrate I have the green reptile mat/rug. I also purchased moss which I keep damp to help with humidity.
>>For fun I threw in a sand blasted grape vine which he actually enjoys curing up on once in a while.
>>
>>Heres my questions.
>>
>>I have the temperature/ humidity gauge located in the exact middle of the tank. The highest Ive been able to get the humidity is 60%. Mind you its located about 3/4 the way up the tank. So Im hoping that at lower levels of the tank its higher. As far as temperature, Im holding 77*F in the middle. Obviously its warmer under the heat lamp.
>>
>>My final concern is the adhesive under tank heat pad. It gets pretty warm. The green mat does alot to absorb it. But should I be concerned with the snake getting too hot? Is it smart enough to know. Hey my enclosure is to hot. Im not going to hang out in there and either soak or go to the cool side of the tank? I just dont want to see him getting injured by it.
>>
>>Ive had him now for about 3 days. He ate a pinky last night with no problem. So Im thinking hes comfortable or he would not of ate. ( BTW I did put in him another container to feed him, hes also very tame and loves to curl up around my arm )
>>
>>Hes about 25" inches or so. So hes still young.
>>
>>Looking for advice, I appreciate it alot being new to this community. Thank You!
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, selectively bred from good stock)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
12.25 BRB
12.14 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Triton,
...Welcome to the forum. My girlfriend is cool about my snakes but my wife is not cool about the snakes or my girlfriend (jk).
...I would do quite a bit different with your setup. BRBs need warm, not hot temperatures and very high humidity. They are secretive and mostly nocturnal and do not bask. The humidity requirement is especially important when they are small. If they are kept too hot or too dry they will dehydrate. Early symptoms of dehydration are dry "scaly" skin and regurgitation. If kept too hot or too dry for too long they will die. You would think these snakes would know to soak in a water bowl when the cage is too dry but they often times do not do this. The problem is that we keep these snakes in our homes and during heating and again during air conditioning season the air inside our homes is often below 20% relative humidity. If we keep them in cages with top screens the cage heater warms the air inside the tank and it rises out the top of the tank. Cool dry room air then falls into the tank to replace the rising hot air. Rather than heat the cage so much and have the heater drive the humidity out of the cage you should stop the cycle of cood dry air replacing the warm moist air that flows out the top of your cage. I would cover the screen top completely. There will still be an ample air gap around the edges of the top where it mates up against the tank. I keep little BRBs in solid plastic boxes with tight fitting lids. The only ventilation these cages need is the 8 or 10 eighth inch holes that are melted through the sides of the boxes. You will know the humidity is high enouigh when you at least occasionally see condensationon on the glass. As soon as you cover the top with something solid your 60 watt heater will be WAY too powerful and will DANGEROUSLY overheat the cage. 60 watts is enough electricity to heat ten large adult BRB cages. You need to be thinking about heating your cage with perhaps a 15 watt under the floor heater and controlling it with a proportional thermostat or a dimmer so that it keeps the floor in the warm end of the cage in the high 70s to low 80s and the floor in the cool end in the low 70s. Rather than use a matt in the cage I would use an easily replaceable substrate like paper or moss or coconut bark chips. These snakes pass lots of liquid urine and the high cage humidity will grow mold and mildew on any permanent substrate.
...I have copied and pasted below the caresheet I give to everyone who buys one of my babies.
Good luck,
Jeff

CARE OF NEWBORN BRAZILIAN RAINBOW BOAS
Epicrates cenchria cenchria
By Jeff Clark

Brazilian Rainbow Boas (BRBs) make great pets. They are very hardy and typically grow to around 6 feet in length. Many BRBs have been kept in captivity for over 20 years. Their size is much more manageable and practical than many of the other Boas and Pythons. They do require high humidity. This is especially important when they are small. If kept too dry they will dehydrate. Minor dehydration will cause feeding and shedding problems. Major dehydration will kill them. Baby BRBs should be maintained with close to 100% humidity in their cages. This can be accomplished by using damp substrate and limiting the ventilation. They do require some ventilation but in cages with large screen sides or screen tops the humidity will rapidly escape from the cage. Ideal substrate material for little BRBs is paper-towels or newspaper. The advantage of paper-towels and newsprint is that it can be easily changed. Damp substrate will quickly grow mold. It should be changed often. BRBs drink more water and pass more liquid urine than most other snakes. Substrate that is kept in the cage too long will become contaminated with urates which are very acidic and this will harm the snake’s skin. Many people use mulch and chipped bark substrates. Some of these substrates are excellent but you should be careful not to use one that is too acidic or one from a garden center that may have parasites in it. I especially like the cocoanut husk chunks and chips substrates for BRBs. It is vitally important to not use cedar substrate. The oils in cedar and similar woods are toxic to snakes. Pine shavings and aspen shavings are also not suitable for BRBs. Did I mention that you should change the substrate often? BRBs require cages with a cool end in the low 70s and the warm end in the high 70s to very low 80s. If you keep them in cages that are too small to maintain a temperature gradient in the cage they should be kept with the entire cage in the mid 70s. Temperatures higher than this can quickly cause dehydration and death. Most reptile heating products are too hot for Rainbow Boas. These snakes are nocturnal and secretive. Using overhead lights to heat their cages will create too much stress for a BRB. Cage temperatures must be controlled with a proportional thermostat or a carefully set and monitored rheostat. Don’t guess what the temperature is down in the cage where the snake spends most of it’s time. Invest in good temperature measuring equipment and use it often to make sure you do not overheat your BRB. BRB temperature requirements are 10 to 15 degrees cooler than what is required for many other boids including Ball Pythons, Boa Constrictors and Burmese and Reticulated Pythons. People who try to keep BRBs hot like they keep their other boids often kill them. Extra care should be taken when transporting BRBs. If left in a closed car in the sun the temperature will rapidly rise and kill them. BRBs should be provided with caging with hiding spots so that they can avoid light and activity. Small plastic containers like margarine is packaged in with a small entry hole cut into the side of the container work well. Place substrate material such as damp moss or damp papertowels in the hiding container. BRBs need a waterbowl in their cage that is large enough for them to submerge. They will often soak in the water for several days before shedding. However, when they do not have a good hiding spot they may have to use the waterbowl for a hiding spot and spend too much time in the water. Adult BRBs can be set up in elaborate naturalistic caging. They look especially nice in large cages with exotic plants. However they will spend much of the daylight hours hiding in or under the plants. It is best with a new little BRB to keep the caging simple to make sure the snake is doing okay before adding too many variables that may cause problems. After the snake is acclimated and doing well you can make small changes in the caging and try different substrates and plants making one change at a time. Little BRBs should be fed small live mice at first. Many will also take live pinky rats for their first meals. They will feed much more readily on a live meal than a dead meal. They also like mice that are large enough to run around much more than they like pinky or small fuzzy mice. I have actually fed full-grown adult mice to BRBs for their first meal. They can handle very large prey but are more likely to regurgitate if fed extremely large meals When they have become accustomed to eating live prey they will easily switch to eating fresh killed and then frozen and thawed prey. Thawed prey will work best if it is heated to around 105 degrees for the first feeding attempts with it. BRBs are always more likely to eat undisturbed in the dark than when being closely watched in bright daylight. Do not force-feed a BRB. Force feeding is very stressful and stress is often the reason that one will not eat. These snakes are eating machines. If your BRB does not eat it is because of stress or improper husbandry. Eliminate the stress and correct the husbandry and they will eat readily. The most common husbandry problems are keeping the snake too hot or too dry or subjecting it to too much light or activity. Little BRBs have a very simple outlook on other living things. Anything it sees moving is either a predator or prey. When first born they will often strike and bite. The bite of a little BRB is not painful and usually does not bleed. If you handle the snake for several minutes everyday it will quickly become tame. If it bites or strikes it is because it is afraid of you or it thinks it can eat you. Just let it bite and hold on and chew if it wants. By doing this it will learn that you are too big to eat and that you are not harming it and that striking and biting will not make you go away. If you do retreat when it strikes you will reinforce the striking and biting behavior. Little BRBs can be handled for as much as an hour per day. Too much handling can cause stress and stress may cause them to not feed. It is okay to have them out of their cages in humidity much lower than 100% for short handling periods.

If you have any problems with your BRB email me at jclarksnakes@comcast.net
Visit the Rainbow Boa forum on kingsnake.com to get answers to any questions you may have about Rainbow Boas. The archives of posts there are full of information. My Rainbow Boa website has information on breeding Rainbow Boas and also has information about and photographs of the other subspecies of Rainbow Boas. The website is located at http://www.corallus.com/cenchria/index.html

>>Hey all, finally I was lucky enough to have my girlfriend allow me to own a snake! Luckily the pet store down the road just recently got a hold of some baby Brazilian Rainbow Boa's. This is my setup,
>>
>>20 long tank
>>Screen top 3/4 covered with plastic, (metal clips to keep tight)
>>Im running a 60watt red bulb 24/7
>>I have a large soaking pool under the light along with an enclosure. Under the enclosure I have an adhesive under tank heat pad.
>>For a substrate I have the green reptile mat/rug. I also purchased moss which I keep damp to help with humidity.
>>For fun I threw in a sand blasted grape vine which he actually enjoys curing up on once in a while.
>>
>>Heres my questions.
>>
>>I have the temperature/ humidity gauge located in the exact middle of the tank. The highest Ive been able to get the humidity is 60%. Mind you its located about 3/4 the way up the tank. So Im hoping that at lower levels of the tank its higher. As far as temperature, Im holding 77*F in the middle. Obviously its warmer under the heat lamp.
>>
>>My final concern is the adhesive under tank heat pad. It gets pretty warm. The green mat does alot to absorb it. But should I be concerned with the snake getting too hot? Is it smart enough to know. Hey my enclosure is to hot. Im not going to hang out in there and either soak or go to the cool side of the tank? I just dont want to see him getting injured by it.
>>
>>Ive had him now for about 3 days. He ate a pinky last night with no problem. So Im thinking hes comfortable or he would not of ate. ( BTW I did put in him another container to feed him, hes also very tame and loves to curl up around my arm )
>>
>>Hes about 25" inches or so. So hes still young.
>>
>>Looking for advice, I appreciate it alot being new to this community. Thank You!

Triton here are a couple pics of my plexiglass, gauges in my 20L and Dave's dimmer 101 (my zoo-med one bit the dust). My temp is reading 78 and humidity is almost 90% and you see a little bit of condensation and my uth is not under my waterbowl. As mentioned before some snakes don't soak because I have never seen mine but figure it is because my exo-terra bowls are too big for the little guys so I only put about 1/2 inch of water in there and occassionally see them cruise through the water and get out but never stay in so I take in account that and run higher levels of humidity for them. When my glass develops a little condensation I just simply uncover it a little more (1/8 of an inch over that 30). I also use natural sunlight (not direct) but it is better to get a nice thermostat instead of a dimmer unless you are always checking on it or have the room at a pretty constant temp.




Bob

Very nice set up!

Sorry I didnt notice the replys still getting used to this forum layout. I opened a new thread with a pic of my setup and a little more info. Its titled : Rainbow Boa setup Cont.

Also, I actually dont know how old my baby is. Hes well over 20" inches Id say almost 2ft. He also downs 2 pinkies at a time. I fed him today and he took to it with no issues. So Im hoping that means hes comfortable.

Like pointed out in your guide, he did strke at me twice today. But I made the mistake of also handling my cat prior. Forgot to wash the scent off my hand. If you want to reply to this. Please do so in the updated thread I created. Sorry for the confusion and thank you all for the great info!