Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK so here is the deal. I bought a rack from company 3-4 months ago. I Had it plugged into a thermostat and it was working fine for 3-4 months. I have bought others from the same company. I came home today and smelled something burning. I looked at all my racks and noticed one was all smoked up. I pulled it out and low and behold it was burning up and my 100% het. Albino was dead. Here is the deal. I had the probe of the thermostat in the bottom tub (which burned up) in the back. This rach has two belly strips of tape in it which were both plugged into the thermostat. Only one strip was burned up and it was on the bottom in the middle of my rack. I called the company and they told me that I should have had the probe on the tape itself and that was one of the problems I had. Now the snake was not mine. It was part of a breeding loan. The guy who loaned it to me was a firefighter... go figure. He told me that it was not the thermastat that went wrong it was a short in the heat tape. The thermestat was set so that the back of the box was around 90 degrees. The Company told me that sometimes sh!t happens and that I should have had the probe on the tape itself. I have made racks and bought many and I have never had the probe on the tape. Somehow because of the fact that the probe was not on the tape the tape itself tried to overheat to make up for it. Why woould this take 3 months and why have I never had this problem before. As of now the only think they are doing is sending me a free tub to replace the one with the burned hole in it. I had to offer to pay first before they said... don't worry about it. I am not posting this to give someone a bad rep... but i would like opinions to who's fault it was. I am feeling that it was more the tape in the rack which was previously installed rather that a fault of myown. Any opinions? As of now I am not using the rack and out of a $1000 snake.

Man that sucks what happened. To me it sounds kinda like your thermostat went out and the was trying to heat and heat and heat to bring the temp up, but that does not explain why only one heated up not both. Could of been the plug it was plugged into coming off the thermostat even. Or as you suggested the tape shorted. To me though it sounds more like the thermostat messed up somewhere and I'd get a new one thats for sure.

Hope you figure it out.

Blake

What does the heat tape itself look like? Did it burn up, or did it just melt the box?
Mike

I would think it was the tape. I mean i really dont have any experiance with this problem or any rack problems for that matter but if only one or the drawers where damaged i would think it is the tape. If it where the thermostat you would think the other drawers would have also been affected. Did you check the temps in the other drawers and where they higher than normal? If you have your thermostat set for 90ish and the other drawers where at a higher temp i would say themostat. I dont know who i feel worse for you or the poor snake that cooked or died of smoke inhalation. Anyway good luck and i hope you find the answers you are looking for.
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B Sleeper

1.0 Chocolate Lab
0.1 ?? Normal Ball python (yet different)
1.0 04 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Pied
1.0 06 Pastel
0.? 07 Pos Het Albino (Momma has not laid the eggs yet)

The thermostat is still working perfectly. The other tubs were fine in temps. The one above the one that caught was a little higher in temp. The heat tape was comletely burnt up. I am thinking it was more and more the heat tape.

Well like i said i really dont have any experiance with rack problems but i do know a little (very little) about electronics and I am also leaning towards the Tape. But i would wait till you get more responses till you make your decision on what you think happened. There are alot more people on this forum with alot more experiance than me. I am sure someone will stumble across your post and know what happened.
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B Sleeper

1.0 Chocolate Lab
0.1 ?? Normal Ball python (yet different)
1.0 04 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Pied
1.0 06 Pastel
0.? 07 Pos Het Albino (Momma has not laid the eggs yet)

Im definately sorry to hear the unfortune.
Its no fun coming home to that stuff. Im not posting to say who was at fault, however I will say that from my experience I do think it is safer to place the probe on the tape. Thats not to say your method doesnt work but youre definately the first person Ive heard of that doesnt place the probe on the tape. The tape is the primary source of the heat. Wouldnt it make sense to want to monitor that primary source heat source first and foremost rather than a secondary method?
Just my opinion.

Good luck with getting it all taken care of and happy breeding.

I never put the probe on the tape always in the back of the drawer under the substrate touching the plastic but i think i will have to change my method after this story. I always assumed that if you put it on the tape it would not be quite as warm on the inside of the drawer. I mean either way you look at it it makes sence.
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B Sleeper

1.0 Chocolate Lab
0.1 ?? Normal Ball python (yet different)
1.0 04 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Albino
1.1 06 Het Pied
1.0 06 Pastel
0.? 07 Pos Het Albino (Momma has not laid the eggs yet)

Was it Flexwatt or Easy Heat Heat-Tape? The Easy Heat is a cable with two strands of wire about an inch thick.

Thanks,
Albey

Albey's "Too Cool" Reptiles

more details....what kind of tape and what diameter was it for starters....i only mention this because i run my 3 inch tape in my racks WITHOUT a thermostat and the tape never gets too hot to hold comfortably with your hand( the inside temp never gets too high and the bins are way oversized for balls in them so they thermoregulate just fine)

what happend to you is crying shame by the way

I always put the probes on the tape for a few reasons one being if it is in the container not on the tape and you set your theremostat for 90, your theremostat is going to keep pumping till your cage is 90 which will make your heat tape much higher. I have seen things similar happen before and it was always an era with the theremostat, i am not saying it cant be the heat tape but I would lean towards the theremostat. What kind of theremostat are you using? Certain ones work different ways, we use helix b.c it pulses and can read higher temps and display error signs, some do not work this way and supply constant heat waves instead of pulses, if the probe falls out or is moved then the theremo is going to work extra hard to get that place to what ever you have it set at, if the probe is out of the cage (just an example) the tape wont shut off b/c the rooms temp is not , lets say, 90 yet. Just my experience and thoughts.
Sorry about your loss.
Kim
N.A.R.C

Some tips for all who use heat tape:

A few things went wrong here. When you use heat tape of any size or wattage on a belly heat rack of any design, especially ones with larger tubs, you MUST put the probe on or very close to the heat tape. There are a few reasons for this.

If you put a probe in the tub, away from the heat tape itself you are setting yourself up for trouble. Many things can affect the temperature or the probe besides the heat tape. For instance, a cool or cold room may artificaially lower the temp at locations other than on the tape, moisture or humidity (evaporation) may cool the probe, once again fooling it. Worse yet, if there is a snake in the tub the animal can move it altogeher off of the warm area, spill water, etc, etc.

These issues are then compounded by the fact the tape is tightly sandwhiched under a tub and against another material that is usually a decent insulator (PVC, Melamine particle board, plywood, etc) which keeps most of the now excessive heat trapped. Over time the tape will fail under these circumstances. Only question is when. When it fails it will do exactly this, short-get too hot and then melt where it shorted. Might take a year or more or may only take two weeks. Made this same mistake myself about 14 years ago and have not had a piece fail for me since.

Please, when you set up your racks or your own heat tape in a belly heat application place your probe on the tape OUTSIDE of the tubs and secure it so it can not be moved by tubs sliding past it. This way your tape surface temp will not exceed the mid 90's. If that is not warm enough to heat your rack adequately then you will want to move to a warmer room or move to a larger surface area tape.
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Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc
www.reptilebasics.com

The only time I have ever seen anything like what happened to that tub in the pic is when two or more heat tapes were crossed and were lying on top of each other.

On our racks we have a giant disclaimer engraved into each panel which says, "do not overlap the heat cables".

Crossing tapes is a bad idea because the heat multiplies from each tape.

That is a bummer that it happened to an albino.

First, it is a better idea to place the probe on the heat not in a bin, but that is probably not what went wrong. There was likely a short in the heat. I don't know what company the racks are from so I don't know how the heat is installed. But in MOST racks, the heat is installed in a BAD way. The worst is when a bin constantly rubs against the tape when sliding in and out. This wears away at the laminate and can cause a short or fire. Recessed belly heat that is set into a plastic shelf (a type of plastic that is self extinguishing) and does not come into direct contact with the bin (air space), is connected to a PROPORTIONAL thermostat (flexwatt is not designed for on/off thermostats) and monitored on the tape itself, is the absolute best and safest way to go. If anything in your setup is different I urge you to correct it. Many people don't have the setup I mentioned and have not had problems, yet. However, this is the safest method. In my racks I place the probe on the thermostat and set the thermostat to 90-93 so that the inside of the bin is at the right temperature, it ends up being slightly cooler in the bin than the temp measured on the heat.