Reptile & Amphibian Forums

...on another forum I was responding to a ? about feeding and handling a Sav,and the subject of feeding mice and rats came up,and all of a sudden i'm being called"stupid"because all I feed my(adult) monitors are rats,chicks,and an occasional egg or roach.
...apparently I was wrong...
...i've only owned 6 monitors in my whole life mostly Niles and Savs,and one Argus...that were all boughyt as w/c babies and all but one grew into big healthy adults not a lot of experiance granted but this fellow has no monitors...never has yet,I dont know what i'm talking about because he read all these "research papers"...am I wrong here?...am I causing my animals harm by only providing this diet?...should I include more items for diversity?
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0.1 c.b.97' 9'6" 62 lb. Colombian Boa "Scarlet"
1.0 c.b.02' 6' Pastel Colombian Boa(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 17" Firebelly x Pastel boa "Betty Boa"
1.0 wc 3' Savannah Monitor "Ozzy"
0.0.1 wc 1'Savannah Monitor "Uggy"
1.0 c.b. 04' 4' Everglades x Yellow Ratsnake "Pooh"
1.0 c.b. 05'2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 Oscar 10" "Jaws"
"...does it bite?"

Why bother with what peoples say if your lizards are doing fine?

Enjoy your monitor.

...thanks,i was just trying to help someone else and got blasted for it,but i guess it happens to everyone once and a while...
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0.1 c.b.97' 9'6" 62 lb. Colombian Boa "Scarlet"
1.0 c.b.02' 6' Pastel Colombian Boa(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 17" Firebelly x Pastel boa "Betty Boa"
1.0 wc 3' Savannah Monitor "Ozzy"
0.0.1 wc 1'Savannah Monitor "Uggy"
1.0 c.b. 04' 4' Everglades x Yellow Ratsnake "Pooh"
1.0 c.b. 05'2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 Oscar 10" "Jaws"
"...does it bite?"

Heres the deal. That person READ that in some old totally out of date book. So, like a test in school. That person is right, he read it and repeated it to you. But the information he read was wrong. So with current information, that person is WRONG. Of course he was right, if you keep them poorly and feed them foods they are designed to eat, they will die. But then they will die anyway from lots of other things.

In the old days when they recomended and offered tiny little or no basking areas,90F minus, monitors could not properly digest and assimulate heavy(whole) food items. But with more natural basking spots,135F plus or minus, the temps these animals were designed to use, they not only have no problems, but grow, live, and reproduce very well. You know, the things that old information monitors TOTALLY FAILED TO DO.

With that old information, Savs commonly died of fatty liver disease. The reason is very very simple, the monitors were running a half speed and that will eventually cause organ failure.

In the old days they NEVER reproduced. In the old days, they all died, PERIOD. Now a days, only most die, not all. The reason is, people somehow still read and believe information from those that never ever, never ever accomplished anything with monitors. Don't get me wrong, their accomplishments were writing. Sadly, the writing did not have to mean anything or be right. Their merits were what they wrote, not what they did with monitors, or what their information caused to happen with monitors. That is very important to understand. Please understand the context of the time. If all your monitors failed and died, what are you going to write about?????? Anything but the actual monitors, and so they did.

I am ashamed of you for even giving someone without any actual accomplishments a second thought. You do understand, people have the need to say something and they do. Your task is to ask the right questions and MAKE those people prove their information is correct(realtime current results)

The main and central recomendation is to listen to your monitors. If your monitor is doing well(for the moment) why would you listen to a nameless faceless babbling icon.(what Jobi said) In that, your wrong. And yes, there are people with real complication, indepth well writtin BABBLE. No matter how good their babble is, they must still produce results. No results, equals babble.

Don't listen to people on the internet, that cannot show you with the actual animal. Thats the value of the internet, to have real up to date realtime information. Not something someone read in a book. You can do that if you want. Anyone can.

About books and papers. They MAY in right for the time and application(context). But all books and specifically scientific papers are designed and meant to be REVISED and CORRECTED. So check the date/s, check the results, and weight them with the CURRENT levels of results. Really, you wouldn't pick up a book or engine building and modification, written the the fifties and apply it now, WOULD YOU?(at least those old motors worked)(that old information on monitors did not work then)

Sorry for being so long, but it seems people refuse to understand that information on husbandry is DIRECTLY related to the results of the ANIMAL its suppose to be applied too. Not based on how it sits on a sheet of paper. Its judged on the results the information produces.

One last thought, whats important in captivity?????? This is a very odd question with lots of answers. Is lenght of life important? or is quality of life important. It appears to me, most here dwell of preventing something bad happening in the future, BUT TOTALLY forget to give the monitor a life now. In my humble opinion, their lifes do not start until they actually do things they know how to do(TO LIVE). Sitting in a box and having a heartbeat is NOT A LIFE. its torture.

I personally think doing the base things animals do(life events) is whats important. You from your pics think flopping the poor animal on your shoulders and carrying it around is important. Both are better then nothing. But you could do both. Cheers

That made a lot of sense!Thanks!, Jeff

...i shouldnt have brought the argument here,i have read all of FR's posts that i could find and ive taken alot of information about how to better care for my monitors and been thoughly entertained the whole time (those sceince guys really dont like you do they?lol)...so i shouldve known what his reply was going to be...i didnt take offense to your reply FR i greatly appreciate and respect your opinion...and your right...

sorry again...but what did i expect from the Reptiles Magazine Forum...?
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0.1 c.b.97' 9'6" 62 lb. Colombian Boa "Scarlet"
1.0 c.b.02' 6' Pastel Colombian Boa(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 17" Firebelly x Pastel boa "Betty Boa"
1.0 wc 3' Savannah Monitor "Ozzy"
0.0.1 wc 1'Savannah Monitor "Uggy"
1.0 c.b. 04' 4' Everglades x Yellow Ratsnake "Pooh"
1.0 c.b. 05'2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 Oscar 10" "Jaws"
"...does it bite?"

What science guys? I wonder about this. As science is testing and recieving repeatable results. Do these science guys do that. If not, they are not science guys, at least not in this field.

The above is the most confusing part. Some normal people call themselves science guys, and do not argue when others call them science guys, yet do not recieve repeatable results. A forumula with a result, equals an equation. To be science it must do so repeatedly. I do that, they don't.

I have a forumula that equals a repeatable consistant result, in this field of varanid husbandry and reproduction, the subject of this forum. They do not. So they are not science guys in this field. They are just guys.

Its not science to argue with results, science tests results. They should test what I do, not argue with me. Again, they are not science. Just guys.

If they fail to achieve repeatable results and others repeatably do, then they must have a lack of understanding on the subject. Which means they are not expert or have even a base level of understanding on the subject. Again something you would not equate with a science guy(in a particular subject)

Also it others receive repeatable results for decades and they still cannot recieve these results, then that indicates more then lack of understanding, but instead some purposeful avoidance.

Science is the ability to explain, both successes and failures, they fail to explain both their failures, and their lack of success. And worse, they fail to explain my successes. Again I refer to the subject stated above, the husbandry and captive reproduction of varanids.

From a non science person(me) to another non science person(you), what would you think of someone who cannot do what you have been repeatedly doing for years and then say your wrong doing it??????? and you do not understand what your doing, and your not smart, etc,(the things they say about me) And they are right, even thought they have showed extreme failure in the attempting to do what you have been doing on a daily, weekly basis for years and years. I am sure, you and I would think the same think about those people. I think pity comes to mind, I do feel sorry for them. But because they keep on with their talk and not with results, I think they should get off their hindends and put the shovel to ground and do the work. Once they have done what I have DONE, they most likely will understand what I am saying, until then, they are simply folks babbling, not science folks.

Take the above to a science person in any field other then varanids and see what they say about it. My bet is, 99% will indeed agree with it.

The truth is, those science guys think that their high education automatically allows them to be expert in this field. It bothers them that I am not highly educations but I am so successful in this field. Sir that is the bottom line. It really bothers them that they cannot even get off the ground. So they don't like me. I do enjoy them, they make me laugh. And a person must laugh. Cheers

That's what I fed my Savannah monitor and he looks fine...he grew and shed constantly. Personally, I think these food are great for growing babies and juveniles, but as adult you really have to watch it and not feed it too often or else they get overweight and unhealthy, but I would still use it as the main staple as adult...just not feeding them too often.

...thats what i thought ,my monitors eat every other day with two small feedings a day we do not over feed.I was just was just looking at different forums and saw this kid asking for advise and I really was just trying to help and was actually called"stupid" by a full grown man who works ata certain "petstore"...but I realize I was childish for ranting about it on here...im sure its not the last time it will happen lol...
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0.1 c.b.97' 9'6" 62 lb. Colombian Boa "Scarlet"
1.0 c.b.02' 6' Pastel Colombian Boa(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 17" Firebelly x Pastel boa "Betty Boa"
1.0 wc 3' Savannah Monitor "Ozzy"
0.0.1 wc 1'Savannah Monitor "Uggy"
1.0 c.b. 04' 4' Everglades x Yellow Ratsnake "Pooh"
1.0 c.b. 05'2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 Oscar 10" "Jaws"
"...does it bite?"

n/p..
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0.1 c.b.97' 9'6" 62 lb. Colombian Boa "Scarlet"
1.0 c.b.02' 6' Pastel Colombian Boa(thanks Bill!)"Maverick"
0.1 c.b.06' 17" Firebelly x Pastel boa "Betty Boa"
1.0 wc 3' Savannah Monitor "Ozzy"
0.0.1 wc 1'Savannah Monitor "Uggy"
1.0 c.b. 04' 4' Everglades x Yellow Ratsnake "Pooh"
1.0 c.b. 05'2' Snow Corn "Zero"
1.0 Oscar 10" "Jaws"
"...does it bite?"

You're not being childish. I'd get like that too if somebody calls me stupid. It happens to me when I was telling somebody that she is feeding her iguana the wrong diet. Well, needless to say she didn't like it very much that I was telling her that she may be doing her iguana harms by feeding it animal protein, and she started attacking me. Sadly, nobody on the turtle forum believed me...at least the one that was replying. I was kindda upset and I had to post it on the iguana forum at Green Iguana Society. Right away, the people on the iguana forum told me that she is harming the iguana.