Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, trying this yet again. Hoping this time I've got it right. Odd how when I had tried posting pics before it showed the pics in the preview. So I thought, ah good, post away. Then I get a zillion notices saying, yer pics didn't show... Argh! Well here let's try this yet again! Gearing up for another season, and hopefully much better one at that!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/nodaksnakelover/1-18-07BigGirltongueshotx3.jpg

Very nice!! Northerns are my favorite pits with "red" bulls coming in second!! I guess I'm going to have to sell some things to get my own!!
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Everything I know about life I learned from Nintendo!!!

Really nice shots, those snakes are knockouts Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

HELL yeah!

That's more like it!

AWESOME snakes- LOVE 'em!

//Todd

very nice indeed....are those wc or captive bred?any knowledge to their origin/locale?

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"with head raised regally,and gazing at me with lidless eyes,he seemed to question with flicks of his long forked tongue my right to trespass on his territory" Carl Kauffeld

Thanks for the compliments everyone. In answer to this post, these Pines are all from John Meltzer. So really he knows the specifics best. But from word of mouth, no paper trail, and who has paper trails? But! He had Pines long before their was a market for them. He was selling baby pines for practically nothing just to get rid of them. Yet he kept them around. He got his stock from someone who shall remain unnamed per his request that had caught the adults in the New Jersey Pine Barrens.

This person does NOT want to be bothered with all the hassling that I've seen go on these forums when asked to prove, what, when, where, why.... This isn't antisocial, this is preventing a lot of stress over nothing. Yes in today's world you have scams going on left and right. But this individual was doing this stuff back when there wasn't big money in breeding snakes. There was no market at all! So why would he have reason to lie about whereabouts? And it's my understanding that the great majority of Northern Pines are from the Pine Barrens to begin with. But anyhow, there was a big blow up about this a while back, and I'm sure the guy is real glad he asked John to leave his name out of the history of these Pines!

This was all back before the laws were in place. He was breeding them and John bought some from him. Well of the, what I had been told by John, original three pairs he had bought. He was down to one of the original pairs and some hold back youngsters by the time I got into wanting some in 2000.

This pair of oldies were into their twenties when I bought a male from the original pair, now deceased as of last year. And a female, out of a diff female Pine he had there, but bred to the last remaining original male out of wild caught stock.

That female, is Big Girl. She has high contrast, but still shows plenty of red areas. I absolutely love this look!

The following year, in 2001, John bred his last original female to a young male holdback from a diff pair of original, and I got a pair of those.

(no current pic of that female at this moment)

In 2004 my younger pair had their first clutch which I held back a female. John spied her in my pile that year and said she'd be a beautiful high white. Which is so wanted by so many in the Pit lovers club.

Just over a year ago I had some stuff that John wanted, some male hognose. Well he didn't have a lot of cash on hand at the time, but had this pair of Northern Pines he'd gotten back from a guy. As it turns out, though they were NOT the pick of the litter at the time John gave them away. They were the last two babies he had left at the time. Ugly by his standards when picking out babies. Yet funny how they turned out SO nice as young adults. So they came home with me in trade in promise that I'd breed them into my group. They are out of I believe, the siblings to my young adult pair above. As I know when I got my second pair of adults from John, he had held back a pair himself out of that clutch. So the age would be right.

So that's what I know about this group I have. I have one other Pine from someone else, that won't be staying. He's just not measuring up to the standard I have in my head for what a nice Pine should look like. Yet funny he was SO pretty black and white as a baby, and now that one is dark looking.

SO! to those who strive for the prettiest...thinking just black and white is the key, take a look at Big Girl, she's still high contrast and shows plenty of red, and still called beautiful! And no, you can't always pick out the prettiest look as babies and expect them to keep that look! Sometimes the ugly ones turn out to be the best as shown by my last pair that I got from John!

Very pretty northerns Russell!! Like you, each northern I have from Meltzer is awesome! I love the red on Big Girl!!
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Genesis 1:1

Great snakes! And such great photography to boot!! Thanks for sharing them with us!
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Very nice Northerns. That black and white looks like a Cal King.

Russell
Sweet northerns, if your going to keep them keep the best.
Fred.