Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is a future breeder. She is from Mike Bodner

Beautiful female Tony and she's looking really good. I have one of her sibling sisters that is nearly identical and I chose her for those nice saddles with that light and nicely faded orange color. She even has the lack of head pattern. We have ourselves a couple of very nice yellow thayeri.

On a side note, I read through your post in the Kingsnake Forum regarding the nutritional quality of the food items we offer our animals, also read though the previous thread on the same topic. There were good discussions on a very interesting and important issue. In your comments you brought forward some important and helpful issues that I enjoyed reading along with the thoughts and experiences from others. If I may, I'd like to comment on the one basic item I think you initially wanted to review.

Considering the majority of us are for one reason or another limited to feeding our animals commercially produced frozen mice purchased in bulk, I definitely agree the basic issues of freshness and the quality of the product as it is received is very important. Once a quality product is selected, how it is handled during storage I also agree is even more important. I am within that group of individuals that you suspected as purchasing several bulk shipments each season. I do this to insure that I always have an abundant supply of each size on hand, and to further limit storage time. More often than not, each of my shipments contain everything from 1-2 day old pinks through weanling and small adult mice and I generally order on the average of 4-5 shipments each year, more or less depending upon what the snakes are doing. I don't know how I would describe myself as to what type of feeder I am, very simply I try to give the animals as much as they want of whatever size they prefer when they want it, and regulate that for each individual allowing them to become active and roam on the hunt before offering the next meal.

On to the point I'd like to make from your initial thoughts...

Not knowing how soon each shipment of frozen feeders will be consumed, and using a supplier that produces a good clean product but does not vacuum package it's product, I take the simple step to vacuum pack the frozen mice myself as soon as they are removed from the shipping container. An added advantage to this is that I can pack them away in whatever number in each package that I choose. As I'm sure most everyone knows, there are suppliers that vacuum pack their high quality mice... and will do so in smaller count packages for you if you desire, but it costs considerably more. My Seal-a-Meal gadget cost me a little under $100, does a fantastic job and has easily paid for itself. And I feel good about the fact that I'm feeding a higher quality meal until the next shipment arrives. Those who produce their own live mice/rats etc... could freeze and do the same with their surplus feeders. Removing oxygen as completely as possible greatly reduces freezer burn and the breakdown of tissue and nutrients in the frozen state many times over.
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Mike

Very nice snake Tony first off. secondly Mike, that is a very interesting side note, the other day a co-worker and i were talking about getting a sealer, personaly i produce about 50 percent of what i feed, i have a few colonies of mice going so i can grow them up to the exact size that i want to ensure a good sized meal, plus i can load them on good food and vitamins before the "Big Chill". the other fifty percent i buy from where i work, and we get all our rodents in styro trays vaccumed sealed very nicely, and we have gotten from other places and you can tell just by looking at the mice whether they are good quailty or not i have found. i am usually able to feed off what i purchase rather quickly because i can buy whatever quanitity i want or special order certin sizes for certin animals (the orange female i got from you has her own bag of rat pinks). now i guess where this is all leading to is, what is the longest you would ever leave a rodent in the freezer for before feeding it off?

Adam

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4.5 THAYERI
1.2 SPLENDIDA
1.3 ALTERNA
0.0.1 HOLD BACK RUNT ALBINO CORN
0.1.1 PYXIE FROG
0.0.1 MEXICAN RED KNEE
1.0 CHILEAN ROSE HAIR

Hey Adam,

I would only feel good about a vacuum packed rodent being stored for a few months; safe, possibly twice that long or more and would use it if it looked good and had no fresh options... flesh still pink and no significant freezer burn. Packed well I'm sure they could safely go longer, that is be safe to feed, but I have no idea really what would be optimum as far as nutrition is concerned. A lot I'm sure depends upon the actual temp your freezer runs at, the colder the better. The way I look at it is; planning for short term frozen storage is always a good thing.
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Mike

Yeah i am lucky with the way my mice work, they tend to put off a litter in a nice spaced out time so what i get one week i freeze and feed the next week, i really only raise up mice for my juvies, and if i get some cool ones i grow them up and trade them into work (pet mice) for some credit to spend on crickets. this summer i plan to do more of growing them up when i can put them back out onto my enclosed porch, but for right now i am just doing it for the juvies, well luch break is almost up, have a good one

Adam

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4.5 THAYERI
1.2 SPLENDIDA
1.3 ALTERNA
0.0.1 HOLD BACK RUNT ALBINO CORN
0.1.1 PYXIE FROG
0.0.1 MEXICAN RED KNEE
1.0 CHILEAN ROSE HAIR

I agree, that is a beautiful snake, Tony. I like the saddle pattern and colors a lot.

I've always been concerned with the nutritional value of food items also. I produce more than half of what I feed my snakes. The rest comes vacu-packed from a reputable dealer. I clean my freezer out at least once a year, and usually only toss a smallish amt of large mice. I'd rather give my snakes my own mice, however, since I know exactly what they eat, and my mice are "really" healthy. I also think f/k is better than defrosting mice no matter where they came from or how long I've had them.

I wouldn't mind getting one of those vacuum packers, Mike. If anyone could recommend a website or company that sells them, I would appreciate it.

Good luck this year everyone...

Terry

Terry,

I completely agree feeding fresh killed is far better than frozen and most likely would if I could. I think people who can tolerate raising rodents and have a good option for doing that are definitely a step ahead of us frozen feeders. There are pros and cons to both, but I feel the overall nutritional benefits of feeding live or fresh killed far outweigh the potential risks people talk about. Those who manage their collection to a size that allows them time and space for rodent breeding are very wise and normally experience fantastic results. And live lizards get the job done twice as good as live rodents, but that's way out of reach for most of us.

I bought my vacu-packer gadget locally at Best Buy of all places. There are places like department stores, Linnen-n-Things, Bed Bath and Beyond... do a Google or eBay search...

Thanks for the well wishes!
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Mike

Thanks, Mike. Will do. I always forget most folks live near lots of conveniences, and I live way out in the boonies. Most of those stores I've never even heard of...LOL!

Ya know, I like to feed my new babies live pinks, etc. They seem to do better and grow faster. I don't have very many thayeri, but they're small lizard eaters, so pinks aren't the greatest food, plus the snakes don't get very big. It's nice to get them to where they can take fuzzies faster, because that's more nutritious, imo.

Cheers...TC

Thanks Mike for the compliment and the best comment on the side note as well. Very good points.

beautiful, yellow leonis. I like the way she has the fading orange. Great pic too.
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Michelle

That's one smokin' Thayeri. Mike always has some of the best yellows out there. Beautiful animal.
Ken

Thanks Michelle. I wasn't really looking to add to the collection but when Mike listed this one I had to jump.

looking good Tony. I brought all of my collection in doors...earlier than I wanted to but with all the really cold weather I didn't want to take a chance of having frozen snakes.
Russ

I was a bit worried about mine too Russ. Didn't bring them up but did open the cabinet up bit some room heat could get in there. I'm still shooting for 2/15. Must say I'm still conflicted about which animals to pair up this year. I would really love to produce a fair number of "Vivid" type neonates but the call to produce something more unique by outcrossing the lines is calling pretty hard!

Great looking yellow and reduced black on that one. Mike B. has the right recipe for makeing those. Thanks for posting the pic.
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Vichris

Vichris Variables

Beautiful Thayeri! I really like the hint of orange above her nuchal.
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©

That is one nice looking thayeri, can't wait to see the babies!
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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles