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Can anyone make a recomendation for any breeders working with Texas Indigos that are VERY black "Fake Easterns" for folks like me that can't have the real thing.

From some of the pics, I do see what some of you are saying about the Texas animals Having a brownish mottled appearance rather than Black. No disrespect to anyones animals. I must confess that the Shiny black coloration is a large part of the draw for me as well as the personality.I remember a post a while back of a wild Texas in the feild that looked very black.

Or is this an unrealistic expectation/hope?

Thanks guys.
Bob.

Hey Bob,
I live in FL, so I feel your pain. I wanted an Eastern real bad, but as we know, the permitting for Easterns in FL is, well, virtually non-existant.
I opted for a Texas and I've not regretted it. I got one of the last Erebennus produced by Dean Alessandrini... who I believe sold his breeders to Mike Meade. I'll post a pic or two of Dixie (who is doing well, and growing), and you can see for yourself that she is remarkable to say the least.
She does however, have Erebennus traits, (white speckling, brownish/tan face and orangish throat/belly scales, but she's close enough in my book : )
Good luck in your search.

Justin

I figured there must be others out there in the same position. I am a purist pretty much and don't have much of an interests in crosses etc. (What you like/do is your bussiness) I figure from what I've read with the limited gene pool of captive Easterns the last thing anyone probably wants is crosses but has anyone ever had a male Eastern mate with a female Texas?

Would they possibly be darker animals? Would it allow others that admire but can't have Easterns an oppurtunity?

More importantly would a crossed animal be looked upon as legal by authorities? Obviously everyone here (myself included) cares about being completely legal in our pursuits of our chosen hobby.

I would imagine most folks would be offended at the idea(understandably) and I guess it could result in frustration in ID by the authorities who have been known to just make everything illegal when it gets too hard to differentiate things. And the last thing you'd want to do is endanger the legal keeping of Easterns.

Hope I haven't offended anyone. Just thinking out loud.

Bob.

Virgil Willis had a beautiful pair of D. m erebennus which harbored very little flecking and banding which can be seen in most specimens and they harbored some nice red coloration as well. The pair is now in the very capable hands of Brian Sharp and I finally received a pair of the offspring last year, they are marvelous to say the least and I will post photos when I have some worthy of posting.
as for the "rumor" of D. couperi being released in Texas. John Cherry related this story to me a few years ago and I have no reason to doubt such. Some say the idea of Texas ranchers doing such a thing is far fetched, due to the cost involved, but I know a few Texas ranchers, my wife breeds and trains Andalusians and Aztecas, has done so for over 20 years, and I met several while residing there many years ago. We are talking about folks who would buy new, high end Cadillacs and spend yet another mint to convert such into pick-up trucks, so it is not far fetched to think one of these eccentric ranchers would have gotten such an idea many years ago, back when D. couperi were cheap, legal to collect in the wild and available at most any roadside stand throughout Florida.
Now, I know many who have collected D. m erebennus in the wild, self included, and while I never found any “high red” specimens, I know of a few who have and I take them at their word, especially since the good Dr. G is one of them and I personally believe his word is beyond reproach, especially since he has been field collecting in Texas longer then I have been around.
Have D. m erebennus and D. couperi integrated in some areas of Texas? I don’t know, I do not believe any of us do for certain, but I do not see how d. couperi cold thrive for an extended period in the hot and dry Texas climate, as D. m erebennus appear to be able to tolerate dry conditions better then D. couperi and I would suspect D. couperi would perish within a relatively short period of time in the dry Texas climate.
Also, I recall a great deal of concern regarding the “high red” D. m erebennus produced and offered by Terry Wilkins last year. I recently met and spoke with Terry and I found him to be very knowledgeable regarding Dry in both captivity and the field. The man has done a great deal of field collecting and I have no doubt the animals he has are “pure” D. m erebennus, spectacular specimens too!
While I am aware of a couple of breeders who have paired D. couperi with D. m melanurus and D. m unicolor, I am not familiar with anyone pairing D. couperi with D. m erebennus, though it’s possible someone, somewhere has done such within their basement somewhere and I would suspect the offspring would have the potential to demonstrate a very high degree of red coloration.
Should you wish to have a specimen harboring the rich “indigo” coloration exhibited by D. couperi, without the flecking and banding, I would suggest you acquire a D. m rubidus, as specimens from the northern extent of their range have no dorsal pattern or flecking. Problem is, only a couple of folks in the US have breeding pairs…

Best regards,

Jeff

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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

Jeff

Great post man!

I was one of the folks who expressed curiosity (concern seems a little strong) regarding the “high red” D. m. erebennus produced and offered by Terry Wilkins last year.

I'm happy to see that you met and spoke with Terry. Your favorable opinion regarding Mr. Wilkins and the authenticity of his animals is welcome news. I look forward to obtaining one of his "High Reds" in the future.

Thanks and Best Wishes,

John D
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I am so not lesdysxic!

0.1 Creamsicle Cornsake "Yolanda"
1.0 Bairds Ratsnake "Steely Dan"
0.1 Desert Kingsnake "FATTY"
0.1 Black Rat (WV Rescue) "Roberta"

Thanks John,

Terry still has a few remaining males from his '06 clutch, but it will be at least another year or two before he has females. While he told me he had paired his D. m erebennus this year, he was uncertain whether the female was gravid or not. Personally, I would look into acquiring one of his males and contacting Brian Sharp about the possibility of acquiring a female, should he have a good year.
While many breeders are reluctant to sell a single female, sometimes clutches throw an additional female or two and getting on someone's list early can help to secure such specimens...

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

I have admired your Rubidus for some time now, but as you've pointed out they are seen more seldom than most other Drys and I think a Texas animal would be easier hopefully to find let alone afford. I am not too familiar with that puposeful crossing rumor. Thanks for the info.

Give me a shout sometime, Bob,

You just might be surprised at how easy it is to acquire D. m rubidus ;0) They are not meant to be admired from afar and I enjoy getting them into the hands of those who cannot acquire D. couperi...

Photo by Alan B.

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

I kept one of her sisters from last year and she is quickly becoming my favorite snake.

How's Dixie feeling? Any more concerns about her "yawning"?

Like I said, that pic you posted is too cool bro.

And as for Dixie, I think she's ok... She feeding just fine, and has shed since my first post, and all appears ok now. I'm just a bit over-protective/concerned about her I guess. She is my favorite snake after all...

The pics I posted are from October last year... so I want to take new ones and post 'em, I've just been so busy with my old mopeds... I'll do it soon. Take care and keep up the good work.

Justin

Indigo snakes rock, mopeds roll.