Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just wondering If it would be possible when breeding a super snow to a Raptor what would you get, eventually a super snow raptor, what would that even look like?

Kendra

I don't know. It could be interesting. That's the fun part of mixing different morphs. It's like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get.

Alberto at A&M has mack snow raptors. With a guess I would say all white with red eyes. The patternless leaves no spots and the super would leave no color. So the body should be white and the eyes would be red. Which would make it look just like a diablo blanco.
-----
Brian
www.windycitygeckos.com

Interesting. I was just wondering since Raptors start out patternless but then usually do end up with those orange blotch spotting, if with a super snow you might possibly end up at some point with an all white leo with ruby eyes and orange spotting, instead of the black. Any thoughts to this?

That might look cooler than Diablo Blanca.

Which would make it look just like a diablo blanco.

What are these Diablo blanco's ? i can see there blizzard with ruby eyes/snake eyes.But i find there price tag abit steep if that's all they are coz eclipse is all ready in the blizzard line anyway and there are quite afew out there so with a bit of breeding to blizing's there farly esay to get.Or is there more to them are they infact (blazing blizzard RAPTOR) but you can't see the typical APTOR patterning or color coz there blizzards.

Are there any pics of diablo blanco's out there other than the one face shot on Leopardgecko.com? Is that what you have heard that they are all white with orange spots and ruby red eyes? It would be nice if they wanted to tease us with a new morph then they would give us a better look at it. Oh well an interesting project possibly anyway.

The snow would take all the orange out so there would only be white left.
If I read it correctly a diablo blanco is a blizzard/raptor. So what makes it worth so much is the amount of traits involved. You could produce allot of different outcomes with one. Albino, stripe, reverse stripe, tang, eclipse, aptor, raptor, blizzard, and probably some combonations also.
-----
Brian
www.windycitygeckos.com

Not to question you but are you sure the snow would take the orange out. There is a lot of black to a snow also? I mean in theory albino should take the tangerine out of leo's also, but they have those also. I am just thinking that the black in super snows could be replaced with the orange color possibly. I am no genetic expert but funny things have happened that no one though could so why not this. I think a blizzard/albino combo w/red eyes just would't be that remarkable. Like it's been said the black eyes show up in blizzards as I have one myself with the solid black eye makes the solid red eye when mixing the albino gene. Just my two cents.

That's the fun thing with breeding projects. We can therorize till the cows come home about what a certain morph to morph breeding will produce, but we won't know the answer till it's been done.

I haven't personally bred either snows or raptors but I know or have seen pics from others that do. A&M hatched a raptor mack last year. So I'm sure this year or next we will see.
Still super snows do not produce pigment other than their black spots. They are the super form of a co-dom trait. I suppose your orange spots could pop up but I wouldn't count on it. Hypos-SHTCTBs are polygenetic traits that take generations of selective breeding to build on.
-----
Brian
www.windycitygeckos.com

I never said this would be a 1st or 2nd generation thing. But look what has happened in just 10 years. We have gone from having an albino to things like the RAPTOR and that crazy orange Enigma from HISS. I mean who thought those things could happen with genetics so yes I think after many generations what I said could be possible, I am also sure that after some time we will have an all black leo also either from breeding hyper leos consistently or line breeding the midnight blizzards or even possible something crazy will pop up genetically also. The possibilities seem endless in this hobby, that's all I was getting at.

I wasn't trying to crush your dreams. I was just answering a question. If you look at the supers now you can see there are no yellows or orange on any of them. Its part of there genetic trait. You can't line breed what it blocks genetically. That would be like trying to line breed an albino to have black spots. Best of luck to you anyways. It would be sweet to pull off.
-----
Brian
www.windycitygeckos.com

You didn't crush my dreams, and I never said I would even be trying this project. I still am no where convinced that you can't breed any color in to the snow trait, I mean why not? We sure have with the albino's haven't we. I am actually more convinced than ever that eventually, and I seem to be the only one thinking years away that it can be done. I have learned one thing with Leo genetics, you can't be smug and think you know it all (not meaing you) but many so called "genetic" experts that spout off what is going to happen when you cross this with that and then when it goes completely opposite they act like they never said it couldn't. Irritates me everytime.

Also wanted to add, are you so sure albino can't have black. The tangerine enigmas with the ruby red eyes that Hiss has sure have black spots on them. What would you call that?

I have to agree with you line of thinkng. We can only make an educated guess as to how a combonation morph project will turn out and only have the answer once it's been done.

First of all this is no way personal. I look at this as some adults having a discussion. I seem to have a hard time getting that across some times so please don't be offended.
Now for the fun. You can't bread tang into Super snows. Just like you can't breed black into albinos. Otherwise they aren't albinos. You can have color in macks. They are just the like a het form though.
Any freakish examples that you are speaking of are just as likely to be produced by wild caught Leos as the example mentioned so its not line breeding. More of a fluke like most co-dom morphs are.
The enigma trait that you are mentioning is an occular trait. The albinos you saw were from Hybino x Enigma which also are from bell lines. So you can have an occullar albino with black spots. The are also het for bell albino if I am correct. Everything I am saying about enigma's are assumtions since I haven't asked. Please don't take this as me undermining them. They are a stunning important new morph.
-----
Brian
www.windycitygeckos.com

I didn't take anything personal or get offended. I'm enjoying this discussion.
It's of the subject, but I'll start a new discussion on the Enigmas in the Leo morph forum.
See you there.

Neither did I take it personal. These conversations are stimulating. Though I respect everyones opinion it's still okay to disagree. I know Brian you say you can't breed color into the snow line. But if we were in Vegas I would be betting you that in 4 generations of a super snow to raptor project there will be colored snows or better yet I should say we would be breeding snow traits in to the Raptor. But as I said I still respect what you have to say and we will sit back and see what happens

I'll have to check A&M out to see that. I take it they have that posted on the web.

>>Just wondering If it would be possible when breeding a super snow to a Raptor what would you get, eventually a super snow raptor, what would that even look like?
>>
>>Kendra

Not sure about a mack super snow RAPTOR but i've found a mack snow RAPTOR so half way there we'll just have to wait and see.

http://www.amgecko.com/images/breeders/bestof06/bestof7.JPG

Very cool, I just checked it out. Still will be interesting to see what a super mack Raptor will look like. Only time will tell if some of that vibrant orange will be able to be bred in. Interesting none the less...Thanks for the link