Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm feeling a bit stuck and lost at the moment, and thought people here may be able to help me make a decision. The quick version of the back story ... I bought a frog eyed gecko at the NY reptile show the beginning of this month. She was put to sleep last week when it was discovered she had an extremely advanced and fatal case of MBD (no visible bones anywhere but inner ear on an x-ray).

The issue... I called the dealer I bought her from and explained the situation to them. I was told, to quote the individual I spoke to, 'Your vet is wrong. I've met vets who are wrong more often than they're right.' He insisted that the animal was perfectly healthy when they sold it to me and whatever happened, its bones completely decalcified under my care in the 2.5 weeks I owned the animal. There was no apology offered and when I pointed out that bones do not disappear in 3 weeks the man offered to 'help me out' with any further purchases I may make from them in the future. He also said that I was out of their 24 hour contact period after purchase about 'damaged' animals which was their only guarantee of healthy animals so that was the best they could do.

Firstly, I have no idea how much they'd 'help me out' with further purchases, but I'm also not sure I'd even WANT a second animal from them. Part of me would like to take them up on their offer, if nothing else, to remove the profit from them and replace a pet that I was very sad to lose. The other part of me thinks I should tell them to go stuff themselves and that they should be ashamed for not owning up to selling a dying animal. Should I see what they're offering in recompense or write it off and save myself from the risk of yet more vet bills for another possibly ill animal?

The dealer isn't a fly by night backyard breeder or a kid doing it because it's cool, but I'm not sure that it makes any difference. Has anyone else had a similar bad experience and how'd you resolve it? Good ending or bad one?

I wouldn't deal with them again, if I were in that situation.

Obviously, it is your decision in the end, but I will tell you my experience:

The first leopard gecko I had a part in raising was my boyfriend's. We bought it from the store that his brother worked at. (He eventually became their exotics manager, but at this time was working under a manager.) We couldn't get the little guy to eat or drink and kept being told by the employees at the store that everything was fine it just took a while to settle down. Not knowing any better we took him to the vet, $150 later we were, very rudely, told we'd have to put the little one to sleep. Well, we took him home with some meds and I went and had a long, somewhat angry, talk with the store's manager. He agreed to take the gecko back and take it to his personal vet and give us a healthy animal. Although this wasn't an ideal situation, we felt it was the best for the little guy.

We brought the "new" gecko home and loved him for 9 months. He was the model of health. Until we moved into a new apartment... the stress of the move reveled that he had an on going parasite infection. The (new) vet explained to us over and over again that there was no way we could have known, he showed no symptoms until he was stressed and was in otherwise perfect health. We spent a month hand feeding him formula until we had to make the same hard choice you did and had him put out of his pain.

We will never... never ever buy from that place again. We will also not have our geckos any where near my BF's brother's collection of herps for fear of infections that he might bring home. One sick animal to me means I turn away from any display or store. There are a lot of people doing really good work with herps and there is always another option... and if there isn't another option, then it is just not worth it. I may be an extreme case, and there are many places I won't deal with for the smallest of reasons... on the other hand, the wonderful leo I have now- I am shocked and amazed at how well the girl that sold her to me cares for her animals and I wouldn't hesitate to send anyone there and have gone back to buy more from her. Just MHO and one that comes from the heartache of losing a wonderful pet too soon.
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0.1 Albino Leo Gecko
0.1 Crested Gecko
1.0 Dear Boyfriend
Departed: Harvey and Spock

If anything at all, I'd call them up , identify myself and say thanks for all your concern, and hang up the phone. They obviously don't care about this situation, and whether they are big or small matters not a lick. To continue to deal with them is just asking for more grief. They'll continue to do what they do, just without any more help from you. JMHO

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

I have to agree. I've had simmilar situations. The best they would offer you is a discount on another sick animal and still profit from that animal. Hit them where it hurts. Never give them another dime, never refer anyone to them, and if any one mentions buying from them discourage them from doing so.
I read your story on this unfortunate incident but didn't reply. You do have my deepest sympothy.
I would also like to give you some other advice. What it sounds like from the thread I read it sounds like you bought the animal from a broker, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm very leary about brokers & only deal with a select few on a rare occasion. Those are the guys who are more into making the fast buck. I find it aggravating as a breeder to vend a captive breeders show and find these guys selling wild caught & lower quality animals at prices that cut my throat. And of course people cluster around there booths because they have the biggest selection, most unusual animals, & cheapest prices.
I'd also reccomend buy captive breed animals as direct from a good breeder as possible. A good breeder will have alot more knowledge on the speicies and even the individual animal you are interested in.
For the record I'm not making a sales pitch here, but if you had bought an animal from me and had this problem in that short of time I would morally have to either refund 100% the cost of the animal or replace it with an animal of about the same value.
A word of wisdom I'd like to pass on to you is "Screw me once your a fool, screw me twice I'm a fool". I find it relevent in alot of asspects in life, including reptiles.

The way I see it, you can do one of three things:
1] Spam their phone and e-mail lines with hate mail until they give you their money back (The promised a healthy animal, they didn't add up to that promise, and you have a vet that can verify there was no way it was a healthy animal when you bought it, no matter if their guarantee only covers the first 24 hours. That's bs that that's their guarantee, and I personally wouldn't have done business with them in the first place, but that's not your fault.)

2] Find a replacement with another breeder who has a better guarantee for around the same price and tell the breeder who will "help you out" with another gecko that you've found one you would like from another breeder that you KNOW is healthy, about the same price too, and it's the least they can do to offer to pay for it, if only to do the right thing. Really try and use the guilt card for this one, try and make them feel horrible because, quite frankly, how they're acting is completely unacceptable for ANY business.

3] Cut your losses and cut contact, finding another breeder to go to.

Sorry you had a bad experience :/ Hopefully things will come around.
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1.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
1.0 Creamsicle/Okeetee Cornsnake

I should note that I don't promote spamming them with hatemail, especially if you want to be the bigger and better person o.0;
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1.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
1.0 Creamsicle/Okeetee Cornsnake

I've had contact with the owner of the company as well now. They were more polite than their employees, but told me basically the same thing his employees did. My vet's wrong, the x-rays were just badly done (though he didn't have a comeback for the dozens of broken bones the poor thing had), and so forth. They'll work with me and give me a /discount/ on further purchases I'll make with them, but no refund.

I've tried calling all sorts of state folks seeing if I'm covered by any sort of business law and guarantee and the answer seems to be no. Reptiles don't have much in the way of protection in California. Like ... none.

So it looks like option 3 is my only choice. I refuse to pay them more money for things, and they're not willing to give me my money back. Customer service isn't their strong point. :/ I'm not going to stoop to trying to make their lives miserable, so I think it's time to just cut my losses and move on. I hope for the sake of their animals (and customers!) that this isn't a common occurance, but from feedback I've gotten crummy service when a problem arises seems to be their calling card. (Not that they have lots of problems, they just deal very badly with the ones they have)

Wise choice. Good luck in the future.