Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey Fellas,
I am in the market for a male cinnamon Ball. But I often find myself confused. Is there a difference between Cinnamons, Pastel Cinnamons, and Black Pastel Balls? Are they all the same snake with just different names? Do they all produce Super cinnies when crossed together? All dominant? Again I just get a jumbled when I am looking for cinnamons, running across snakes with different names but look like cinnamons. How about, this may be silly, but is there a phase that often is assumed to be cinnamon, but really isn’t? Haha, thanks guys for all the help.
-Josh

Cinnamon Pastel: A cinnamon colored snake whose super form is an all black , patternless ball.

Black Pastel: Alleic to the Cinnamon, basically just a color variation whose super is an all black, patternless ball commonly called the "8 Ball".

Pastel Cinnamon: A cross between the Pastel and Cinnamon morph commonly called the "Pewter Ball".

Check out VPI/ Ralph Davis/ Snakekeeper for more info.

Hope that helps, Truch.

So a Cinnamon Pastel is the same as the Black Pastel if you are wanting to produce super cinnamons (all black). BUT a Pastel Cinnamon is different than a Cinnamon Pastel? See here I go confusing myself again haha. But Thanks so far its helping!
-Josh

Cinnamon Pastel and Black Pastel are the same.

NEITHER are really "pastels" that's just someone's sick joke in naming them because people like to use the word Pastel or something. They are totally DIFFERENT than "true" pastels such as NERD Lemon Line, Blonde line, Graziani line, which are all seperate lineages of Pastels.

Pastel Cinnamon is a CROSS between the Cinnamon Pastel gene and the "TRUE" Pastel Gene. Usually just called a "Pewter Pastel"

Heres an example of what you'll hear on a website:

"A BHB Line Cinnamon Pastel crossed with a NERD Line Pastel"

Here's a link too, from Graziani Reptiles:

http://www.grazianireptiles.com/collection/pewter_pastel.htm

Thanks Truch!
That clears a lot up!
-Josh

Actually "Pastel Cinnamon" is NOT another name for Pewter. It's the original full name for what now is often just called "Cinnamon".

Greg Graziani, they guy who produced the first Pastel Jungles (I think the name may have actually come from NERD but now they are commonly called just "Pastels" later had a founding cinnamon animal. Before he proved the Cinnamon genetic he had on his web site a detailed comparison showing similarities it had to Pastel Jungle which was already proven genetic by that time. I suppose the point was that the Cinnamon had a "co-dominant look" but he also named it Cinnamon Pastel which provided a further link with Pastel Jungle. Similarities included white bellies, softened pastel hues, and I think also some head pattern and eye details.

Then he combined the two and produced the striking looking Pewter. With the similarities in traits, names, and unexpected synergy of the mutations when combined I was thinking it might turn out that they where alleles, different versions of the same gene. However, subsequent breedings have shown that an animal can have more than two copies total of the Pastel Jungle and Cinnamon Pastel genes combined which proves that they are at different locations.

So, Cinnamon Pastel is just the longer original name for Cinnamon and not the name of the combination with Jungle Pastel. The double het combo is Pewter. If you really want to get confused we can get into the names for the various 3 and 4 mutant allele combos including the Cinnamon Pastel, Black Pastel, and Pastel Jungle mutations. I have to look those up every time.

They are what we refer to as "Alleles" of each other. What this means is that they are highly similar, but come from different sources. You can cross a black pastel X cinnamon, and produce a "Super" Cinnamon/Black, but each line has it's own tendencies, with the blacks being darker, with the cinnamons being a reddish brown.

Hope this helps