Reptile & Amphibian Forums

snapped a couple of pics, but I'm just posting a few. On the xray I saw no ossification, so I guess he's a she lol.

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0.1 CB fiancee' Kelly (Pythona)
1.0 Mystery Boa (Mr. Lee Ho)
1.1 Burmese (Gravity, Niran (turns out hes a she!)
1.1 Albino Burms (Rodimus, Typhoid Mary)
5.9 Ball pythons(too many to list)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Scotty Don't)
1.0 Amazon Tree Boa (Big E)
0.1 Hog Island (Jane)
0.1 Nic red tail (Bonita)
1.1 Common Boas(Pugsly, Odessa)
0.1 Ambon Retic(Marilyn)
3.3 King snakes (various phases)
1.1 Blood Pythons(Taint, Dee)
2.4 Leopard Geckos
2.0 dumb-estic cats (Nugget & Pedro)
1.0 American Pit Bull Terrier (Joker) don't believe the hype they are fantastic dogs!
0.1 Jack russell/chihuahua cross (Harley)
1.0 MinPin (Bishop)
Well my snakes serve a second purpose...they keep my family out of my house

Its shows in some adult males, sometimes. Xrays dont prove much when looking for ossification. If you saw eggs forming, then the xray might indicate a certain sex.
In fact Ive heard that it only shows in some conditions.

I agree with Shvar. I to discern sex I believe you would have to do ultrasound by somoene who really knows what they are doing. Nice pics.

I appreciate the help SHvar and Mike, I guess I'll have to take it back to work and do an ultrasound. Just one of the perks of being the head technician lol. I'm also going to microchip him/her as I have with most of the larger constrictors in my collection.

Gregory
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0.1 CB fiancee' Kelly (Pythona)
1.0 Mystery Boa (Mr. Lee Ho)
1.1 Burmese (Gravity, Niran (turns out hes a she!)
1.1 Albino Burms (Rodimus, Typhoid Mary)
5.9 Ball pythons(too many to list)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Scotty Don't)
1.0 Amazon Tree Boa (Big E)
0.1 Hog Island (Jane)
0.1 Nic red tail (Bonita)
1.1 Common Boas(Pugsly, Odessa)
0.1 Ambon Retic(Marilyn)
3.3 King snakes (various phases)
1.1 Blood Pythons(Taint, Dee)
2.4 Leopard Geckos
2.0 dumb-estic cats (Nugget & Pedro)
1.0 American Pit Bull Terrier (Joker) don't believe the hype they are fantastic dogs!
0.1 Jack russell/chihuahua cross (Harley)
1.0 MinPin (Bishop)
Well my snakes serve a second purpose...they keep my family out of my house

I have to ask, why are you going to pit tag it??? And why are you going to ultra sound it?

Lastly what difference does it make what sex it is?? You will get a better idea is you simply post a pic of the whole animal.

I understand this is going to sound odd but, why not take the $8 or so, the pit tag costs and buy some mice and feed it. It will surely be of more benefit then sticking a hole it the monitor for no reason. Cheers

Frank,
I simply like to know the gender of the animals in my collection. The ultrasound and my microchipping is practice, I have one year left before vet school. I would much rather practice my techniques (spaying/neutering, xray, declaws and any procedures on exotics, etc) on my own animals than any other. I will be posting new pics of him/her and making other posts in the future. Its not merely the matter of "sticking a hole in the monitor." I feed my animals very well and this one just came into my possesion.
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0.1 CB fiancee' Kelly (Pythona)
1.0 Mystery Boa (Mr. Lee Ho)
1.1 Burmese (Gravity, Niran (turns out hes a she!)
1.1 Albino Burms (Rodimus, Typhoid Mary)
5.9 Ball pythons(too many to list)
1.0 Green Tree Python (Scotty Don't)
1.0 Amazon Tree Boa (Big E)
0.1 Hog Island (Jane)
0.1 Nic red tail (Bonita)
1.1 Common Boas(Pugsly, Odessa)
0.1 Ambon Retic(Marilyn)
3.3 King snakes (various phases)
1.1 Blood Pythons(Taint, Dee)
2.4 Leopard Geckos
2.0 dumb-estic cats (Nugget & Pedro)
1.0 American Pit Bull Terrier (Joker) don't believe the hype they are fantastic dogs!
0.1 Jack russell/chihuahua cross (Harley)
1.0 MinPin (Bishop)
Well my snakes serve a second purpose...they keep my family out of my house

So your doing it for practice. That is the answer to my question. I only asked why. That you feed it well or not, has nothing to do with my question.

Why not use a banana or an orange or something instead of a living animal for practice.

Also whether the monitor is yours or someone elses was not about the question either.

The reason I was wondering is. Pit tags are for identification purposes. You have one Sav. not hard to identify. Or to identify stolen animals. Its not likely someone will steal a Sav.

I have a question for you. Do you think having bones in an soft tissue organ that everts(turns inside out) is a normal thing? I think its a product of gout. Really, this keeps crossing my mind. There is no question a number of individual monitors have bony deposits, but is that functional? Cheers

What's a pit tag anyway?

Its a device that is coded, when scanned, it reflects a unique identification code(series of numbers and letters). Its injected sub Q. most of the time, hahahahahaha althought over the many years, we have IP'ed a couple without harm. The device is suppose to work the lifetime of the animal.

With field studies, you can identify which snake/bird/lizard/mammal is whom. You can scan them from a few inches, which means you have to catch them. Its used in the pet trade to identify dogs/mammals, etc. incase they are lost or stollen and recovered.

This female is on our female study. She has been tagged for 5 to 7 years. She has had several clutches of offspring during that time. She appearred to just have babies again.

In this photo, we found her in the act of expelling the pit tag. Something we did not know could happen if installed properly. We believe we did install this one properly reflected by the time of use.

After we found this happening, my partner did a little research and finds out, it happens fairly often.

thanks, yeah I figured that's what they were, but thanks for the in depth info. But why do they call them 'pit' tags?

Gout? What is a hemibaculum in all of the veterinary textbooks?

A better question may be, why don't monitors that actually function(known reproducers) "not" have them?

Not that this is the answer, but take two fingers, then simulate a hemipene turning inside out. Now imagine a bone in there. A bone is contrary to function. It would prevent everting.

There is no question that some male monitors have them. But what males do? longterm captives kept in large airy cages with lots of air movement(dehydration chambers) Or animals in a reproductive colony? Or the same question applied to wild monitors, reproductive males or non-reproductive males?

Now consider, most of that information was taken back when monitors did not reproduce regularly in captivity. Now we reproduce monitors on a daily basis. I am sure, the information should be different. AFter all, there must be a reason monitors did not reproduce much in the old days.

Dehydration, gout and assoiated conditions may have been good reason.

Lastly, I think you should read your books, be aware of what they say, but surely do not believe all of what you read. It simply would be impossible for it all to be right. Particularly with varanids that have a history of failure. Remember, every book/paper you read, will be revised, in due time. Cheers

"Male varanids have a cartilaginous or bony support structure in each hemipenis called a hemibaculum."

references:

Auffenberg, W. The Behavioral Ecology of the Komodo Monitor. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 1981. ——. The Bengal Monitor. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 1994. ——. Gray's Monitor Lizard. Gainesville: University Press of Florida, 1988.

Bennett, D. Monitor Lizards. Natural History, Biology and Husbandry. Frankfurt am Main: Edition Chimaira, 1998.

King, D., and B. Green. Goannas The Biology of Varanid Lizards. University of New South Wales Press, 1999.

Murphy, J. B., C. Ciofi, C. de la Panouse, and T. Walsh, eds. Komodo Dragons: Biology and Conservation. Washington, DC: Smithsonian Institution Press, 2002.

Pianka, E. R., and L. J. Vitt. Lizards: Windows to the Evolution of Diversity. Berkeley: University of California Press, 2003.

Zug, G. R., L. J. Vitt, and J. P. Caldwell. Herpetology: An Introductory Biology of Amphibians and Reptiles. 2nd edition. San Diego: Academic Press, 2001.

Larger varanids most likely have it ossify and visible on an xray while smaller species may have it remain cartilaginous, hence not showing up on an xray. A human child's xray looks as if they have no kneecaps until the patella ossifies. Gout is uric acid deposits in and around synovial JOINTS that has a much different xray appearance. It presents on an xray as a slightly opaque, irregularly edged mass or "tophus". If they have chronic dehydration and are passing firm urate pellets, the appearance is different than a hemibaculum IMO.

I do agree that chipping and xraying the animal is not necessary (unless savannah males are KNOWN to have visible hemibacula...that i haven't the foggiest clue). But he sounds excited to have all this vet equipment at his disposal.

Passive Integrated Transponder = PIT

I paid $6.00 each for mine. They are great for mark-recapture field studies. You can implant them into animals and since each one has a unique code, that animal is now readily identified in the future. So, someone can mark an animal in one field season, and if that particular animal is recaptured at a later date, you can collect additional data (e.g. growth, location, lifespan, etc.).

Obviously, no system is without problems. An animal that expels the PIT tag becomes a "new" animal when recaptured, which can cause errors in data. PIT tags also do not tell you if and how the animal dies. So, you might mark an animal and never find that tag again; you know nothing further about that animal. However, you can estimate population sizes based on how many you recapture and how many new ones you encounter. PIT tags prove very helpful for those calculations.

I have often contemplated tagging my baby water monitors to gauge growth and see if my "guesses" for sex are accurate. Also, I would be able to scan water monitors in the future to see if they were ones I sold.
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^x^ Bloodbat ^x^
Monitors, monitors everywhere
and all the food they ate.
Monitors, monitors everywhere,
their parents loved to mate.