Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Say that three times fast! Our Olive pair has been going CRAZY lately in the breeding department. They have been at it almost non-stop for the passed week. Today I walked by the cage and it looked as though the female had eaten a large rabbit. It's sort of hard to see in the pic. She was at a sort of odd angle to tell for sure, but I didn't want to move her or disturb her at all, so this is the best that I could get. Thanks for looking.

Patrick Powers
Manager of Prehistoric Pets

Awesome Patrick. I had a female before that appeared to ovulate, but nothing ever came of it. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you though! More of these amazing pythons need to be produced.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

Thanks, Chance. We are hoping for the best. We got a lot of breeding last season, but no ovulation, and nothing came of it. We have high hopes for her this year, though.

Patrick Powers
Manager of Prehistoric Pets

She doesn't appear, from what I can tell in the pic, to be overly fat. According to just about everyone who has successfully produced these snakes, that is the key. The female I had before was WAY too big, though she did appear to ovulate. Here she is during what I perceived as ovulation, being that she hadn't been fed in a good month and a half. The suspected area was along the right-side curve of her body.

Obviously though, she was a bit too...err...ginormous...to produce anything, at least according to the Barker's ideas behing olive production.

This is the female I'm working with now and have better hopes for, because she has the age (cb '97) and the slenderness.
(terrible pic, but you get the idea)

If you wouldn't mind though, I'd like to speak with you a bit on the specifics you've been using with this particular snakes, especially if she lays. Just things like temps, light cycle, room given, etc. It may be best for everyone working with them to just address it on this board. I'm cataloging what I do with my guys in hopes of A. success, and B. being able to share it with others to try to reproduce the same effects.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

Mine ovulated last year around March or April. Got x-rays done and confirmed a number of "things" there, which I thought were eggs at the time. Nothing was laid, so I assume they ova re-absorbed. Had I known they were not eggs, I'd have put the males back in with her, as there had been quite a bit of copulation. This year no one shows any interest in mating, although when I put the two males in with her this week, there was some tail wagging and fluid leaking from the males.
All are about to shed, so maybe that "perfume" will help. My female is rather heavy...about 9-10 feet, but 22lbs.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.0 Woma
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

I'm EAGERLY reading, and HOPING you guys get this figured out...

I know it's been said a bazillion times already, but I LOVE these snakes, and would LOVE to see more of them produced.

//Todd

but there was some species of snake that I read about that only would breed every other year. I just can't remember which species it was. Is it possible that this is what is happening with some of these olive pythons? Just a thought, since some of you were having problems with uninterested females and with possibly reabsorbed ova.
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phflame
kingsnake.com host

Possibly, but since there wasn't any actual usage of ova/eggs, I'm not sure about that. Most of these animals came out of VPI, and last spring when I talked to Dave Barker, he didn't mention anything about every 2 yrs, just that the thinner they were (to a point), the better the results. My males are far thinner than the female. I've done thermal changes, but I'll just keep on trying until April or May. Just after shedding is, of course, a good time.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.0 Woma
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

Ive been working with papuans for the past 12 years, andthey taught me some valuable info. I believe a number of things about thier breeding husbandry are similar to aussie olives (although some things are definately different). from hearing stories from you guys and others, both these species tend to seem like they ovulate and then no eggs ever. One possible reason for this is that in the wild they copulate a ton, fight, copulate some more, and finally the female ovulates. In captivity theres no fighting in most cases and not that much copulating. I was advised a long time ago to put them together until i am absolutely sure the female has ovulated... and the one year i got eggs, thats what i did. Also, keepers thend to hope so much for ovulation that they trick themselves into believing they are observing it. I can tell you FOR SURE that in the case of papuans, which have similar egg anf follicle size to aussies, that ovulation is unmistakable..........humongous.......no way you can not be sure. the mid region of the snake increases in girth about 3-5 fold. However, there are definately times when theres some swelling during follicle development...but it just is no where near what you get during ovulation. Also, its very possible that these two species are highly selective during mating in the wild, both on the males and females part.......which would explain why people with trios and more have slightly more sucess than others with just a pair. hope this helps. Patrick, you picture does look like ovulation to me, but is just a bit out of focus on the region of interest to tell for sure from the pics. Good luck with the laying and incubation!

I think there are similar things happening with Boelens and Papuan Olives. Do you think moisture and rain/misting has an effect? Both of them seem to have overlapping territories, although Boelens are usually from a higher altitude where it's cooler and wetter. O'Shea's book on the Snakes of Papua New Guinea has some nice collection maps.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.0 Woma
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.1 Savu
1.1 Juvie Bloods
1.1 Juvie Balls
1.1 IJ Carpets
1.1 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
1.0 Jungle Carpet
2.2 Scrubs (on breeding loan)
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

They certainly look similar, dont they. With both (i dont really know anything about boelens, but i wish i had the opportunity to study them)i bet the wild caught ones really need the rain/ moisture for the stimuli. I mean, in the wild animals are constantly faced with changing scenes and smells, which probably keeps them going. The humidity, therefore, i dont think is so necessary, but is secondary to improving the quality of daily experience. So, yes misting systems are important, but not for the reasons that we usually think (humidity). As for captive bred ones, stimuli is probably far less important.....and thats partly why it is ALWAYS easier to breed captive born pythons than wild caught ones. I would say a small amount of misting, maybe every other day for 5-10 minutes, is optimal, but beware its far worse to have too high humidity for too long than to not mist them at all. In a cage you will almost always have a few types of potentially lethal microbes flourish, in contrast to in the "wild" where a large diversity of microbes tend to keep eachother in check through competition for resources.

I have never seen a gravid or ovulating olive python before, and its a weird angle in the pic, so I may be totally off base, but doesn't that lump seem pretty high on the body to be an ovulation? All the pythons I have ever seen swelled up much more distinctly towards the tail.

Slightly different anatomy in these guys, the follicles develop pretty close to the mid region, and the eggs actually mature pretty high up in the body (away from the tail end), which is not the case for let say a ball python.

Thanks for the tip off, and the observations you wrote about in the other post. I really have no clue if what the snake I pictured was doing was ovulation. It just knew I hadn't fed her in at least a month and a half and all of a sudden, she has what appeared to be a bulge. It could've been follicular development, who knows. This time the female is has is rather much slimmer and I'll probably more easily be able to tell what's going on. I'm waiting for her to shed and will begin introducing the male.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

Unfortunately, I don't know enough about breeding the Olives, and by what I have read here about how difficult it is, this might just be some beginners luck. To be honest, it's almost more of an accidental thing. We keep the snakes in the same cage on display in our shop. Last year around this time we witnessed copulation, but we fed both animals heavily, especially the female, which, from what I have read, may have caused problems with the female. She may have been too heavy, and thus absorbed the eggs. However, this year, there has been a TON of copulation. And, it's tough to tell in the picture because of the angle, and the fact that I didn't want to try and move her into a better position and disturb her, but it looked as though she had swallowed a 3 pound rabbit, despite the fact that she hasn't eaten in about a month or so. We are very a much hoping that things work out for the best. I will definitely keep every one posted on the situation.

Patrick Powers
Manager of Prehistoric Pets

3 lb rabbit...youll definately be getting something probably around 25-30 days after her next shed. Probably should get an incubator up and running. Keep in mind that because the incubation is so long (90 days i think)its not the best idea to do the substrate free method that green tree breeders are so fond of. Good luck with the lay and incubation and hatching. Its probably very exciting for you about now.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that the incubation is so long. Reticulated pythons are 84 days, so it's probably about the same. We have incubators here at the shop that are set up and running right now, and we have the necessary vermiculite/perlite mixture ready to go, so once she sheds, I'll mark the calendar and look forward to pulling some eggs!

Patrick Powers
Manager of Prehistoric Pets

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Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
R&R Herpetological