Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everyone, I just have a couple of newb questions about hybrids. I'm actually considering getting a hybrid (either a cal king/cornsnake or Sinaloan Milksnake/cal king), but I haven't made my decision yet. I've actually heard a lot of hate talk about hybrids in forums and in some magazine articles, why is that? is their something wrong with hybrids? I personally think some hybrids are just as pretty as a "pure" snake. Is there a care or behavior change in a hybrid, or is it just coloration? Thanks!
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1.0 Hypo Tang Leopard Gecko
1.0 Giant Jungle Albino Leopard Gecko
0.1 Normal Leopard Gecko
0.1 SHTCT Baldy Leopard Gecko
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko
0.1 High Yellow Lavender Leopard Gecko
1.0 African Fat Tailed Gecko
0.1 Crested Gecko
1.1 Cornsnakes
1.0 Ball Python
1.0 Sinaloan Milksnake
1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
0.1 Rubber Boa

most of the hate talk you hear is just that, its hate talk. most of the time hybrids are problem free, sometimes even stronger than the parent species. care is usualy the same as the parent species, most crosses parent species have simlilar (or identical) requirements.
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jake

my addiction:
0.2 normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
0.1 amelenistic corn snake (maizy)
0.1 blizzard corn (blizz)
1.0 albino cal king (zeus)
0.0.1 wc garter (zim)
hybrid breeders association
hybrid haven

lets just say that this question has many answer.
if you like hybrids then their is nothing wrong with them. i personally own a few and i am a avid supporter of hybrids. i dont see anything wrong with them.
many dispute that since god didnt make it it shouldnt be. others believe it with completely screw up the gene pools of "pure" species, and some feel that if they are released either on accident or on purpose that they would have irreversable effects on native wildlife.
i say bah its all jibberish.

if god didnt want them to be they would not be able to breed and make viable babies(if you put god into the equation that is)

their is a possibility that the genes could get into pure species but any reputable breeder will have as much background info as possible and as a breeder you yourself must make a judgement call on if you believe it has "bad" genes or not. we can only try and be as responsible as possible to keep records and let people know about your hybrids and that the babies are hybrids.(no matter how outcrossed they are)

if the snake is pure or a hybrid it could/would have the same effects on native wildlife

its all on how YOU feel tword hybrids i love how they look and act ,many have hybrid vigor (better health/growth rates bigger clutches) not all but many show the vigor in one way or another.
its all up to you
adam
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hybrid breeders association
1.1 sinacorns
1.1 kenyan sand boas
1.1 mbk
1.3 ghost corns
1.0 snow corns
1.0 albino corns
1.0 jurassic milk
0.1 bloodred
0.1 striped albino corn
0.1 childrens python
0.1 albino nelsons
0.1 anery motley
0.1 albino banded cal king
0.1 normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.2 normal leo geckos

Your arguments are fine for supporting hybrids. I personally see no harm and have actually thought about buying some recently and making my own with an altern x corn cross. However, as you said, some "haters" are concerned with hybrids being released in the wild and tainting wild populations, or the fact they are not pure and maybe entering the hobby misrepresented by unethical breeders. I for one would not want to buy something like a pure amel emorys ratsnake to find out later it is actually a creamsickle with corn blood in its lineage. Yes, that would PO me to no end!! Would you want to buy a super cool patterned sinaloan milk for a breeding project and find out it has corn blood or cal king blood in it?? Would you use it anyway and sell the babies as pure sinaloans, or state they are hybrids? Thats the point with hybrid haters, its the unethical breeder who sells the hybrids as pure IMO.

yes its true that is were the haters get a velid point is that their are some unethical breeders out their just trying to make a buck. and im sure some hybrids are sold as pure species but with educating yourself about the species you wish to purchase you can normally pick out some hybrid markers
adam
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hybrid breeders association
1.1 sinacorns
1.1 kenyan sand boas
1.1 mbk
1.3 ghost corns
1.0 snow corns
1.0 albino corns
1.0 jurassic milk
0.1 bloodred
0.1 striped albino corn
0.1 childrens python
0.1 albino nelsons
0.1 anery motley
0.1 albino banded cal king
0.1 normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.2 normal leo geckos

>>Your arguments are fine for supporting hybrids. I personally see no harm and have actually thought about buying some recently and making my own with an altern x corn cross. However, as you said, some "haters" are concerned with hybrids being released in the wild and tainting wild populations, or the fact they are not pure and maybe entering the hobby misrepresented by unethical breeders. I for one would not want to buy something like a pure amel emorys ratsnake to find out later it is actually a creamsickle with corn blood in its lineage. Yes, that would PO me to no end!! Would you want to buy a super cool patterned sinaloan milk for a breeding project and find out it has corn blood or cal king blood in it?? Would you use it anyway and sell the babies as pure sinaloans, or state they are hybrids? Thats the point with hybrid haters, its the unethical breeder who sells the hybrids as pure IMO.

The same argument can be made about pure snakes being misrepresented.I've seen plenty of people on this site and others incorrectly naming pure snakes.
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www.mesozoicreptiles.com

Mesozoic, IMHO misrepresentation is bad period. Once again, I do not want to buy a florida king when I purchased a goini, or an alterna when I bought a thayeri. I think it is the ethical responsibility of the vendor to properly represent their animals. Of course, some of the problem may come from brokering other breeders animals. If I buy a couple of clutches of "Thayeri" to resell and I am pretty darn sure they are greybanded kings, what to do? I may have to sell them as thayeri because that is what the supplier said they were, and me calling them anything else COULD be misrepresentation.

Saying "I have a pretty good idea" is being honest. It means you don't know for certain. You simply give your best honest representation of the animal as you know it to be, and that’s the best you can do. It is entirely the risk of the buyer to introduce any new addition into a breeding program. If he is willing to take a chance on an animal of unknown or unverifiable origin, he’s the one misrepresenting his product if claiming it is anything but uncertain. It is a very rare thing that it matters, in my opinion. In those rare cases, those people have to pass on acquiring those snakes no matter what the seller is claiming. Buyer beware.

"their is a possibility that the genes could get into pure species but any reputable breeder will have as much background info as possible and as a breeder you yourself must make a judgement call on if you believe it has "bad" genes or not. we can only try and be as responsible as possible to keep records and let people know about your hybrids and that the babies are hybrids.(no matter how outcrossed they are)"

as i posted earlier the buyer has just as much resposibility as the seller. the seller should provide as much info as possible but if the seller is only a broker then its up to the buyer to decide if he/she wants to use it in a breeding program or not. being knowledgeable about the species you are tying to reproduce is the key. this can be a problem though when working with species as variable as thayeri or even corns when crossed with rats
adam
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hybrid breeders association
1.1 sinacorns
1.1 kenyan sand boas
1.1 mbk
1.3 ghost corns
1.0 snow corns
1.0 albino corns
1.0 jurassic milk
0.1 bloodred
0.1 striped albino corn
0.1 childrens python
0.1 albino nelsons
0.1 anery motley
0.1 albino banded cal king
0.1 normal corn het hypo,anery
1.0 blizzard leo gecko
0.2 normal leo geckos