Reptile & Amphibian Forums

For some of you that know, I have been dealing with R/I in one of my boas and a possible mouth infection. The first round of shots was 2.7 mg of Baytril once a day for 10 days. Her re-check didn't show any results so now I'm on round 2. 2.7 mg of Baytril once a day for 14 days. Now, I tried to feed her three times since I've been doing the shots, all refused. I can understand that since she is being pulled out of her cage everyday and getting stuck with a needle, plus her illness. But she hasn't eaten in a month and a half and is starting to get some loose skin. Should I finish the shots, wait another week and try and feed again? what are your suggestions on what I should do to encourage her feeding response? This whole situation has made me very upset, I have had nothing but problems with her since the day I received her and of course the so-called breeder will not do a thing about it.

Finish the shots. Not eating is probaly from stress. If your going to keep alot of reptiles, I would suggest investing in some research. A good microscope and Dr. Maders book on Reptile Medicine and Surgery, would be a good place to start. See what the vets are reading. Relying on off hand comments from a forum is not going to get it. The best chance your snake has is for you to become better informed.

I've been in similar situations before. Eventually, I had to tube-feed my boa a mixture of some fancy-schmancy dog food and something else (it's been a few years). Basically, I had a syringe attached to an 18 or so inch piece of lubed surgical tubing that I had to stick down her throat. This is definitely something you want someone with experience to show you if you end up having to go this route. Surely speak with your vet beforehand.

It is possible that her infection is caused by a gram POSITIVE bacteria which is why the Baytril is not working. Ask your vet about Tylan or Tylosin, which treats these kind of bacteria. It is widely used in resistant RI that other antibiotics don't seem to help. It is a relatively safe antibiotic that we have used with great success before. It is dosed at 50mg/per kg once every 3 days for 3 treatments.

As far as her eating... she may start again when she feels better, or you may need to get your vet to show you how to tube her. Then once she is rehydrated and feeling better she will eat on her own. Also there is a wonderful product call Nutribac that will replenish the "good" bacteria in her digestive system that the anitbiotics destroy. You might get some of this and put it on her food or include it in the mix if you end up tubing her. It is also an appettite stimulant.

Best of luck, we all know to how hard it is when one of our "babies" is not well.

Kathy

the tylosin isn't a drug that most vets carry. It's usually one that you would have to have them special order or formulated...but baytril does gram positive and negative bacterias anyway. the problem is that without doing a culture and sensitivity of the bacteria, you don't know which ones work. A culture is a minimum of 100 bucks and it might throw a false negative now because she's been on antibiotics. I would have to have her off usually for like 3-5 days and then culture her mucus and see what it comes back as.

I have purchased my Tylan at the local feed store. It is a commonly used anibiotic in chickens and sold over the counter.

All I was just thinking was, if the baytril didn't work the first go round, why not try something different? I have also heard very good things about an anibiotic called Fortaz. Most vets don't carry it, but they can order it.

Personally, I would question the vet about sticking to a treatment that doesn't seem to be working, but that is just me. I am rather pushy when it comes to my animals, particularly since so few vets know much about reptiles, although very few will admit that to a client. I quit using one vet a while ago because he wouldn't answer my questions and seem irritated that I would even ask questions ...I was just supposed to trust him. Sorry, but if I am paying someone, then they get to answer any questions I might have. My animals mean more to me that some vets stupid ego.

Kathy

If round two of Baytril doesn’t bring about results, the causative organism is apparently not susceptible to this antibiotic. Either another class antibiotic needs to be started, or sensitivity testing needs to be initiated. Baytril, or enrofloxacin, is a fluoroquinolone antibiotic that is effective against many gram negative bacteria and it does also work against a few gram positive species as well. Just because Baytril is not effective in this case doesn’t mean that the causative organism is necessarily a gram positive. It work’s well against some RI’s, but some gram negative cases will not respond to it.

Tylan, or tylosin, is a macrolide antibiotic that is effective against only gram positive bacteria. It has been used successfully to treat chronic RI (respiratory infections) caused by Mycoplasma bacteria in reptiles. Tylosin will only work if the causative organism of the RI is Mycoplasma, otherwise it will usually be ineffective in resolving any other types of infections. It is cheap and safe and vets that deal with livestock will have it as it is mainly used for RI’s in cattle and hogs.

Another possibility is amikacin, as it is a great choice for stubborn RI’s caused by many gram negative bacteria and a few gram positives. It has about the widest spectrum of activity of all the aminoglycoside class antibiotics. As an aminoglycoside however, it is toxic and the dosage needs to be calculated exactly from the weight of the snake. It has been used very successfully for RI’s in snakes, and I have used it with good results in the past.

Another possibility would be Fortaz, or ceftazidime. It is a third generation cephalosporin antibiotic. It’s mainly effective against gram negative bacteria, and many of the more antibiotic resistant forms. It is relative safe and works well against many RI’s in reptiles, as most of these are caused by gram negative bacteria species. It appears to have a wider spectrum of bacteriocidal activity than Baytril.

Kelly

First off, thank you all for your input, I really appreciate it. My next step is that I'm going to finish off round 2 of the Baytril (10 days left) Then I'm going to make another appointment for a re-check. I'm also going to print out this entire thread, grab a highlighter and take this into my vet for him to read. (if you all don't mind of course) Maybe something will pop into his head that he didn't think of before or who knows, she may get better in the meantime. Anyway, I'll post an update in about 2 weeks when I find out more. Thanks again.

I've found a company that sells a gram stain kit for 17.00 dollars. HomeScience Tools.com

using Tylan?

By my calculations, I need to administer almost 7cc of Tylan 50 every 3 days for a total of 4 treatments. Can this be right? Here are my calculations, based on Tylan 50 which is 50mg/ml and assuming that 1ml = 1cc:

15lb boa/2.2 lbs/kg = 6.82 kg

6.82kg boa x 50mg/kg = 341 mg

341mg/50mg/ml = 6.82 ml = 6.82 cc’s

Alex

I apologize for cutting in, but using Tylan 200 will quarter your current dosage volume. Tylan 50 is really only good for very small snakes. Also, due to site irritation and possible tissue damage with certain antibiotics, it isn't a good idea to inject more than 2 milliters of any antibiotic solution at a single injection site, even on a large snake. By using Tylan 200 on your boa, you will only need a daily dosage volume of 1.7 ml, and will allow you to cut back on the multiple injections.

Kelly

No apology necessary, your information is welcomed and appreciated. Your response has confirmed my calculations, 6.82ml/4 = 1.705ml when converting from Tylan 50 to Tylan 200. Thanks again for your help and I will get some Tylan 200.

Alex