Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I saw 2 Vision tanks, one was 48 x 28 x 18 and the other was 48 x 26 x 14. Are these good tanks to use for monitors? Are these better than the regular all glass aquarium tanks? Lastly, are those sizes suitable for some of the smaller monitors like the peach throat and the black tree monitor? Thanks.

While the owner of Vision is a long time friend, no is the answer, no on all counts and many more. I actually did some work with vision(Scott) to make monitor cages, but somehow he lost interest.

Monitors require deep substrate, Vision cages and most other cages, have no ability to do that. If you do not provide deep substrate and only use shallow natural substrate, the stuff still mucks up the doors and renders them useless.

Also, to small for all but the true dwarfs, V.caudolineatus, V.kingorum, etc. Not even suitable for Storrs and Ackies, Muchless Kimberlys and tristis. Cheers

I, too, know Scott from Vision well and use his cages for many of my snakes but, like Frank mentioned, found them to be useless for large monitor species. I once had a black throated monitor that I thought was pretty happy in a large Vision until I placed him in a large outdoor enclosure with soil and grass on the floor. I came back an hour after putting the lizard in and he had dug a 4' tunnel underground! I ended up placing heavy galvanized screen 4 1/2 feet under ground to prevent an escape. He seemed like the happiest lizard on earth with dirt/mud caked all over his head and soil between his toes. I also discovered that the cute and lovable/cuddly blackthroated that was kept in indoors turned into a far different beast outside. First time I walked into his large outdoor retreat he came right at me hissing, tail lashing, the works; nothing like a little natural sunlight to bring out the true personality of a monitor. Now I feel very guilty when I have a monitor in a commercial cage even for short periods (much less long ones). Well designed cattle troughs would probably be a much better indoor cage than a commercial "made for reptile" cage.

Rob Carmichael

>>While the owner of Vision is a long time friend, no is the answer, no on all counts and many more. I actually did some work with vision(Scott) to make monitor cages, but somehow he lost interest.
>>
>> Monitors require deep substrate, Vision cages and most other cages, have no ability to do that. If you do not provide deep substrate and only use shallow natural substrate, the stuff still mucks up the doors and renders them useless.
>>
>> Also, to small for all but the true dwarfs, V.caudolineatus, V.kingorum, etc. Not even suitable for Storrs and Ackies, Muchless Kimberlys and tristis. Cheers
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Maybe it’s the fear of being predated upon by birds or snakes and such that brings them back to basic survival 101.

I think monitors feel secure in closed cages, outside or inside.

They don’t seem to understand that wire mesh or plexi protects them from predators.

I don’t think your monitor was a happy camper, I think he was highly stressed and did is best to survive in unknown territory.

Just my opinion

He was the happiest monitor on earth (not to anthropomorphize; okay, I did). Just pure observations of this animal in his large outdoor enclosure (20 feet wide x 10 deep x 10 high) complete with trees/limbs, large pool of water, ground retreats indicate that this was a lizard loving life; I can't think of a better monitor enclosure. Have you ever come across a monitor in the wild that just allowed you to come up and pet it on its back? I haven't but I would love to hear from someone who has (very doubtful). No, this monitor was just acting like a monitor... Digging, spending time hanging from its tree limbs soaking up sun (eyes closed, all four legs sprawled over the limb like a jaguar that just ate a large meal), seeking shade/refuge under a REAL tree with lots of shade, swimming and just hanging out in the pool, lots of sand/soil to dig in....I already said digging but this lizard loved to dig. Yeah, you're right; this was a very stressed out monitor

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center

>>Maybe it’s the fear of being predated upon by birds or snakes and such that brings them back to basic survival 101.
>>
>>I think monitors feel secure in closed cages, outside or inside.
>>
>>They don’t seem to understand that wire mesh or plexi protects them from predators.
>>
>>I don’t think your monitor was a happy camper, I think he was highly stressed and did is best to survive in unknown territory.
>>
>>Just my opinion
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Obviously I am mistaking, your monitor really was acting like a monitor.
The flight distance of many wild monitors is variable, some living near human settlements will actually enter houses or climb picnic tables and steel your sandwich, in fact many are so complacent they are dangerous.

However most peoples do not offer housing conditions you explained, in less suitable pens monitors digs as hell and stay concealed most of the time.

Didn’t mean to offend you in any way.

I have only one outside pen that I use in summer, it started as 4 plain walls, to witch I adapted mods every year, eventually my monitor pen became a garage.
I saw no advantage to keeping them outside in my part of the world.

Living in the Midwest, we, too, can only keep our monitors outdoors for relatively short periods of time. I'm sure that there is no real difference in terms of health but I look at it as providing a little enrichment into the animal's life to be outdoors, even if for brief periods (there I go again, anthropomorphizing). Interestingly, this particular animal becomes very placid indoors whereas once settled into his outdoor cage, is an entirely different animal. I honestly don't know what it is - fresh air, hot sunshine, a monitor being a monitor (solitary who doesn't need any friends), etc. I wouldn't say the lizard is aggressive, just far more wary and almost territorial.

>>Obviously I am mistaking, your monitor really was acting like a monitor.
>>The flight distance of many wild monitors is variable, some living near human settlements will actually enter houses or climb picnic tables and steel your sandwich, in fact many are so complacent they are dangerous.
>>
>>However most peoples do not offer housing conditions you explained, in less suitable pens monitors digs as hell and stay concealed most of the time.
>>
>>Didn’t mean to offend you in any way.
>>
>>I have only one outside pen that I use in summer, it started as 4 plain walls, to witch I adapted mods every year, eventually my monitor pen became a garage.
>>I saw no advantage to keeping them outside in my part of the world.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Heres one for you, its not sunlight. In fact, it has nothing to do with sun light, another old wifestail. Cheers

I'd like to hear what your thoughts are on this. My guess is that the sunlight heats up the monitor to the point where he is in full metabolism mode; energy to burn. So, any heat source (road, rock, etc.) could suffice and be the causative agent for these sudden behavioral changes. Perhaps it's just coincidence, but I see it more when the animal has been in the sun rather than early in the morning or later in the evening when the sun sets. Since I don't keep my monitors outdoors year round, I am only speaking from my observations of monitors being kept outdoors on a seasonal basis.

>>Heres one for you, its not sunlight. In fact, it has nothing to do with sun light, another old wifestail. Cheers
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Hi Rob, I have been keeping monitors in all sorts of cages outdoors for 16 year now.

I have top opening cages, where the monitors can only see up(sun light). In these cages, they act no different then when they are inside.

Now, if its heat thats causing your monitor to act different, then that means you need to increase the heat inside(thats how i ended up discovering high heat) But yes, if your monitors are under heated inside, that the increase will allow them to be themselves.

But there is more. To monitor is a big one. That is to see out. To see distance and things normal to them. This is a very big one. Also pocessions, a real burrow, a real basking area, things they value and protect in nature. This can also be done inside. Things useless them are not protected behaviorally.

So, in my experience, its have far more then just sun light. They have sight, heat, pocessions, and they without question, know what outside a cage is, even when the cage is outdoors. Cheers

This all make sens

I like FR's comments about monitors being able to see out of their cages. Some people talk about providing bright lighting with indoor monitor cages. In most situations very bright lighting creates a mirror effect on the glass which makes it very difficult for the monitors to see what is going on outside of their cage.

Who cares if they can see well inside of their cage, they want to see out! But if you listen to those people, you would be installing 1000 watt metal halides in your indoor cages or some such thing.

Cheers