Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Are the metallics from vivid worth the money or do all bairdi's turn out that way. I mean I love the metallics but they are twice as much as everyone else's.

No, many Baird's Ratsnakes out there are rather drab. Vivid selectively breeds P. bairdi from Banderas county (TX) which are exceptionally rich in color. Comparing a Vivid Baird's to a regular Baird's is like comparing an Abott's Okeetee Corn to a regular Corn. Whether or not it's worth the extra money is entirely up to you. With Vivid at least you'll know what to expect.

That is what I thought just wanted to make sure. If the difference is like it is in the pics it is worth the money.

Generally agreed but there are other nice locality lines available from Val Verde county as well.

I think Vivid is the safest bet as far as being confident you will get what you want. I wish I had bought these years back when I had considered it. One thing though, I would guess quite a few people have Vivid stock now, so it is possible to get the same line for less if you look around. Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

The same goes for many other species/morphs as well. Many times the smaller, less known breeder will have his /her table at a reptile show go overlooked with the same coveted bloodline on the table........many times, it pays to do some investigating(if possible) on where bloodlines were acquired.....Sometimes people like to boast about "WHO" they got their bloodline from, rather than "WHAT" bloodline they have!!.................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

I have done biz with Vivid a few times and have nothing but good things to say about Mr Gebhard. I think he himself enjoys the fact the his stock sold years back are now producing. The fact is he may charge a bit more, but many people like to go directly to the originator of a specific line. I do not think he is one to overproduce anything either and in my opinion that can be a great thing to focus on in any breeding project. I personally prefer the tag V.R. Bairdi like his Thayeri....but Metallic Ratsnake has most likely diverted some well deserved attention to these incredible snakes. I could see many people ignoring the name Bairdi....it is not too appealing. Then imagine them seeing babies and being told how they blossom into incredible looking snakes.....if someone was unfamiliar with them they'd probably pass... So I guess as long as the snakes are being noticed, and shortly after simply being called Bairdi. Metallic rat snake was a pretty smart name to use to promote these. If I had babies available I'd label them Metallics! If they were Vivid stock of course. It very well may be you don't see a lot of these advertised because they sell out faster then some would assume? If ya got em, post some more pics people! Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

>>I think Vivid is the safest bet as far as being confident you will get what you want. I wish I had bought these years back when I had considered it. One thing though, I would guess quite a few people have Vivid stock now, so it is possible to get the same line for less if you look around. Tom Stevens
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>>TomsSnakes.com

There are some very nice bairdis out there that are NOT Vivid stock.
Not taking anything away from Vivid by any means, they produce some beautiful bairdis, but it is getting harder and harder to find the supposed "dull" bairdis anymore.
There is also the simple question of what you are looking for.
If you want bairdis with a lot of color, look for someone that has breeders with a lot of color.
If you want bairdis with the more "metalic" look, seach for someone with breeders that have that look.
This is not to promote or demote anyone. Just my feelings on how hard it is to get an ugly bairds rat snake...LOL
I haven't seen one yet.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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I have an adult male that was brought in to a petshop as a juvenile. It looked like it would turn out to be gorgeous.
It has lemon yellow ventral coloring at a very early age. Every time I show him off, people Ooh and Aah at him.
I've been trying to sell him for years. He's so danged tame that I use him in tons of educational programs, and he impresses every time.
However,....
He looks rather drab next to my Vivid pair. Each year, I have the hardest time getting rid of the Vivid offspring, but I'm pretty sure they beat all the other lines with cosistency.
Every baby is large and has a hearty appetite.
The only reason that I don't use my Vivid adults in education is that I am very protective of them.
I find it hard to believe that Tim Gebhard sells out on his Mettallics every year, but he does live an the area where bairdi roam freely through his backyard. His adult male (that I saw 6 years ago) was AWEsome. Mine aren't as nice as his, but he can afford to be choosy, and if he wants, pick up a nice adult off the road in the spring and keep the clutch. My purchases from him are worth it to me, but at the time, were only 50 bucks each. I'm pretty sure that he has held some back since and his breeders are even better now, judging by the pics on his site.
Some of the babies I produce probably turn out as nice as some of his, though, but you just can't tell until they are fully 3 to 4 years old.
I've seen some from TX hwy 277 bairds that were amazing, though. In fact I have a WC female from that road, and she looks like she'll be a winner.
I've seen pics of some wild bairds that were almost totally free of grey - all orange, in fact. Troy Hibbets has a good shot of one somewhere.
Personally, I prefer the bright silver ones.
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...and I think to myself, "What a wonderful world."

Please forgive my lack of typing skills in the previous post.
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...and I think to myself, "What a wonderful world."

MY 2 CENTS ON BAIRDI.........

If you are looking to have a nice representative of this rat snake, you need to look at the parents of the offspring you are looking to buy. If the parents are screamers, at least you have a shot. These snakes do not really develop their colors until they reach adulthood. Be prepared to wait 3 years. The great thing about these snakes is that like fine wine, they get better with age. Their colors get more striking as they get older.

I have to hand it to Vivid........they have a nice line of bairdi, and they have coined the "metallic" rat snake descriptor to market their offspring. Kudo's to them!

Take another look at my big male Bairdi........I picked him up at a show for $15 after looking at the parents that were also for sale. The parents were sharp. In retrospect, I should have purchased the whole clutch. I see a plethora of rat snake morphs on the market these days at all kinds of prices. Very few match the complex colors of a sharp bairdi........no way!

Now I am confused. Is it worth buying a couple and just seeing how they turn out or spending double the money on the metallics. Like I said before they have the nicest looking ones I have seen right now but at over double the price it is hard to decide. I would like a couple but i don't like the plain grey ones.

As a general rule, asking to see pictures of the breeders is a wise thing before buying any North American Rat snakes.
It seems especially true with Baird’s and several of the good folks here hit on a good Baird’s point. It may take years to get the full color effect.
You can increase your chances by using trusted breeders and should ask to see the parents, but it seems Baird’s, more than many other North American Rat Snakes take several years to develop their final, mature pattern.
This 6 year old male was a butt ugly hatchling. Beauty is, of course, in the eye of the beholder, but I always liked the strongly striped Baird’s.
.

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Regards, Bill McGighan

I have 2 young ones from Vivid and I swear that they are getting visibly more orange/red every time I see them. They are only about 8 months old, still with their juvenile grey patterns, yet I see a HUGE amount of orange/red coming through. What's really nice is that they are both developing what appears to be different hues of colors.

And eating...they eat like there is no tomorrow.

Needless to say, I am very pleased with them.

The only "down side" for me is that they seem to be very shy, prefering to hide all the time. But they are still young and their shyness will probably lessen with as they increase in size.

Anyway, at the rate their colors are changing, I expect to see something dramatically colorful by summer. Although, and of course, these colors will continue to develop into adulthood. Tim from Vivid told me his line's colors intensify until the snakes reach 6'.

If anyone is on the fence about buying, get the Vivid stock. You'll see beautiful results a lot sooner than 3 years, although it may take 3 years for the colors to fully develop.

And yes, there are some very boring and drab grey/brown bairdi out there, especially if you, like me, prefer dramatic and vibrant color.

tom k.

Do you have pics? Would love to see them...
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2.0 Snow Corns
1.4 Normal Corns
1.0 Sunglow Corn
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.2 Creamsicle Corns
0.1 Amelanistic Corns
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1.1 Black Rat (Albino,White Side)
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0.4 Misc. Cal. King
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0.2 Cat
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0.1 Friend
jswanson737@hotmail.com

Gorgeous, i like Draybar's explanation, haven't seen an ugly bairdi, especially on here, all different but equally impressive!
Todd Hughes