Reptile & Amphibian Forums

For the last 10 months I've been raising a Nile in a 5' x 2' x 3' cage (lxwxh) in my living room. I have a wife, (at home mother) a 3 year old boy, and an 11 year old boy along with 3 dogs, and 2 cats. Yes the cage was locked securely and I alone had access. Needless to say the monitor, Bart, was surrounded by constant noise and activity for a good 16 hours a day. Also I should mention that Bart is going on 4 feet now and has moved to a much more spacious abode in another part of the house. Before I got the computer and began expanding my knowlege of monitor husbandry, I handled him along with my other Nile, Marvin, often. Daily in fact. Here's the point, any of the other inhabitants in this household could approach that cage (think of the behavior of 2 boys, 3 & 11 running etc.) and that lizard barely paid any mind at all. Bart roamed that cage, messed around in the water, basked and did whatever else monitors do for most of the day. One of my dogs was obssessed with him and would sit with her nose against the glass and Bart paid very little mind. Any time I came within Eyeshot of the little stinker, He instantly became very aware. As I would approach he would begin to raise,puff, hiss and even tripod sometimes. Obviously he has the capacity to differentiate between me, threatening, and the others, nonthreatening. I am intrigued by this and wondered if anyone had any simillar experiences.

Roger

Monitors definitly have great memory. I once saw these monitors that had been trained to come to eat by certain colors.
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2.3 Bearded Dragons
1.0 Pastel Ball Pythons (NERD Line)
0.0.1 Water Monitors
1.1 Pastel Red Tailed boa Het. for Albino
1.1 Yellow Ackie Monitors
And Counting...

Sounds like you've made some good observations. I think varanids are quite intelligent. They can count, learn at least a few words, etc.

Incuding knowing his own name, one of my monitors seems to know the dog's name as well.

Cheers

These animals are truly amazing. Hopefully, If I can continue to curb my impulse to handle them all the time their assocciations with me will change. I've limited my handling to once a week and only long enough to look them over for health reasons. Marvin, the larger, has been in his own room for over 2 months now. He no longer runs to hide as soon as I enter. He still wont let me near enough to tong-feed, however If I sit on the floor and be still and quietly wait he'll come over and check me over. However one move and he's gone. Once he even crawled up my pantleg! I had to stand up and pull him from the top. I really wasnt too comfortable with those claws so close to such a tender body part. Bart surely wont come out while I'm around for a while. He's been in his new cage a week now and hasnt eaten. I do see signs of activity and that is good. Patience is the word I guess.

Thanks

Roger

It appears you have offended you monitor. The others have not. Cheers

Yes, it appears as if I have, but I'm hoping that if I'm really nice to him I can win his trust and he'll let me feed him some tasty mice.

I darn you to go in the cage, sit in a corner and place some mice on your lap, Heck I double dare you. hahahahahahahaha be still and don't move. Cheers

OK should I hold the mice in my mouth like that lady in the video "Dances with savs". My Niles are somewhat bigger than those savs in the video. No thanks FR, I preffer to keep my package in tact.

Roger

That lady was one crazy old bird. And her saying she seemed to use religously was "They have as much of a chance to bite me as a 2-pack a day smoker has a chance to quit." Or something like that... looks like the lady is going to learn the hard way. Most people feel sorry for the monitors, i feel sorry for her, if she keeps this up she'll definitly have to go through some type of surgery.
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2.3 Bearded Dragons
1.0 Pastel Ball Pythons (NERD Line)
0.0.1 Water Monitors
1.1 Pastel Red Tailed boa Het. for Albino
1.1 Yellow Ackie Monitors
And Counting...

Yeah...she has been terrorizing yet another forum recently. thetegu.com. She was recently banned....what a surprise. That makes 7 fora. Although....her monitors are still alive, however, so maybe she decided to take care of them properly. What she wrote was "Once big, they'll have rehearsed the kiss so many times they could no more bite than a 3-pack-a-day smoker could quit cold turkey."

i made the claim you quoted.
here is some proof of that claim:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkjXnWwvjx4
watch how fast the mods delete this post!
i have affectionate savs.
5 more new vids are up beside that one. They all prove my claims and debunk the idea that 'tolerance' or 'domination' is all one can hope for. The behaviour of your sav is up to you. If you put a puppy in a sensory deprivation tank, neglected it daily and tossed in the occasional rat, you guarantee never to see the sort of response i get from mine.
They enjoy a growth rate of 1/4 inch per DAY for over 2 weeks now. They seek my attention and demand to be petted. Watch the vids. Open your mind to the facts. Get over the personal smear campaign mask hide the shame of treating them as wild animals (code for 'i can neglect it and it's good husbandry')
http://www.youtube.com/VaranusTraining
How your monitor treats you is a matter of training. Therefore, tame or feral- that's an easily self fulfilled matter. You can get a puppy to be wild; you can get a sav to be friendly. The animal is in your hands.
NJoY

Your nile will do nothing to you. He(it) is afraid of you. If you sit in the corner of the cage, it will get very curious and slowly come over and smell you. If you have food, it will soon take it from you.

If you keep it up, it will have reason to like you. But if everytime you go in the cage, you grab, move, harass it, what do you expect.

I get in with Adult lacies all the time and I use to go in with my croc monitors as well. They are not going to attack you. If you are worried(I think both you and your monitor need training) take a snake stick to push him away if you feel uncomfortable.

What do you think going to happen? the killer rabbit thing???? right for the throat, hahahahahahahahaha.

Remember, wild animals depend on interpiding other animals intent. If your expressing fear, the monitor cannot trust you. I would not either.

What I enjoy is male to male stuff. My big lacies like to bully me. So I bully them back. Sometimes one makes they dives for my feet. He never opens his mouth, and always stops a foot short. I swear I can hear him laughing. As I do the dance of toe keeping.

I use to wear white tennis shoes, my male Croc monitor would eyeball them. He somehow thought they were rats(smelled like them maybe) But they were my feet and I like them where they are. He never actually attempted to get them, but sure gave them that sideways one eye stare.

You know, part of keeping monitors is to have fun. Have some fun. Cheers

Hello again FR. If I were afraid of my niles I never would have gotten them. Since I've been doing this forum thing and the books I was going by are sitting on the shelf collecting dust, I've taken the advice you gave me a couple months ago and started trying to figure out what my monitors want and trying to give it to them. I know they know the difference between me and a meal and Im pretty sure they dont have it out for me. Actually Bart, the one who just moved into a larger home was coming along pretty well since I stopped manhandling a couple months back. He was coming to the front of the cage, eating from tongs, and becoming quite curious at water changing and cleaning time instead of running and hiding at the sight of me. Marvin has run of the whole room Barts cage is located in. Marvin is a biter. The funny thing is, he's only bitten when I've manhandled him.(next post)

If I open the door quietly, move slowly to the center of the room, carefully sit down and be very still and quiet he will eventually come over to check me out. If I twitch or move slightly, He stands up and gets all huffy. If I move again I get a good lashing of the tail. The lashing dosent bother me. What bothers me is, it seems like he's saying, "There you go, scaring the krap out of me again so here you go (smack)and the next time you come in here I'll make you wait an hour instead of a half hour before I come over and allow you to marvel over me!" Since you mention it, I believe I will start doing this at feeding time. If he associates me with food he may not be so fearfull huh? Of course, I'll bring my tongs.

Thanks again,

Roger

What your missing is,

First, this thread is aside from the physical health of your monitor.

Its another part of keeping monitors. Remember, keeping your monitor healthy is suppose to be normal and its suppose to lead to other things. Keeping them healthy is not the sole purpose or goal.

The goal is to achieve what a healthy monitor does. To watch and participate in its life as a healthy monitor.

In this case, your nile appears(only guessing, I am not there) to be treating you with the highest respect. Its treating you like a MALE. That is, the most you can ask for. Not the least. Having your monitor subservent to you is not a very lofty goal. But to have it treat you as an equal is great.

I have stated that many types. Most of my males treat me like another male. They position, they bluff, they act out, Sir, thats what monitors do to eachother.

But that does not mean they are mean and aggressive. It also does not mean they are going to bite you. In reality, your monitor is showing you respect by coming over and giving you a good lashing. hahahahahahahaha, again sir, thats simply a male monitor being a male monitor. If you were not in there and another male monitor was, the very same thing would happen.

I could bore you with lots of stories about male monitors. But one I have fully enjoyed was asking my friends to go in with George my oldest male lacie. I made good friends with a few folks I met here, Rsg and Jefe, to be exact. They did come over and when asked if they wanted to go in with george, they simply were to scared(for their lifes).

You see, George is a male and he does his male things. I had him in a 20 by 20 cage at the time. If you(anything) enterd the cage, he would come flying over at a 100 miles per hour. Or so it seemed. If you had food for him, he charged like some crazed out monster. If not, he still charged and dove at your feet.

The thing is, George is a sweetheart. He does not bite. He simply is being a male monitor. If you have food, he treats you like he would any other monitor, scarce the crap out of you, and hope you drop the food, which works ALL THE TIME, with me and other monitors. You see, thats what healthy monitors do. And it works. It works with other monitors and with people.

What is sad is, once they do not have the strenght to do this bluff, the others recognize that and then they turn the tables and attack and take advantage of the other. You see, its all about being dominate.

You see, thats their design, even if dumb biologist think they are solitary. They have all those behaviors, to puff up, turn sideways, to tail whip, to hiss, to arch up, all such things many other animals have to appear bigger and stronger, WITHOUT ACTUALLY HAVING TO BE BIGGER AND STRONGER. Its how they like so many other animals position themselves. Its what they are and what they do.

The funny part is, if you put another male in there, the same thing will happen, then after a few weeks, they will become great buddies and have all this stuff worked out.

Your not working out being your monitors partner or buddy, your falling for the bluff. Cheers

What your describing is how most of my monitors treated me, I just don’t have any lap monitors, however most will tolerate short handling when necessary.

This was never a problem as I have never seen them as pets.

However years ago when I was generously keeping others monitors while on vacation, this was the problem I encountered, most these monitors where super tame and anyone could freely handle them without concern, the problem is only a few days in my care and there attitude changed dramatically, when the owners took them back most would be angry at me. Some of these peoples ended up selling there monitors for being scared of them afterwards. At the time I was concern and tough I was doing something wrong for the monitors to dislike me, first I tough it was about food? Then I tough it was about my other monitors being present in the same room? I also tough I was to blame, that the monitors could sense fear in me, or maybe I should be dominant with them? I actually tried to force handling on some, but they simply would not allow it, you simply don’t wrestle a 5-6 footer who’s not cooperative.

Anyway I stop thinking about it, and now I understand monitors are monitors and act like such if they are allowed to, keepers who keep crocs (or any large monitors) in cramped cages and force handling on them thinking they are building a healthy relation, should rethink there husbandry as they are actually killing these lizards spirits.

On an other forum I recently saw on of my crocs living in a 3W-3H-7L cage for many years now, he’s handled often and appears to have no will to live, theirs no way on earth anyone could have handled this monitor this way when I sold it 6 years ago. He was one of my favourites, he acted like you described from a young age, a spirited monitor with a strong will to live, not a broken limp beaten up reminder of the grate creature he once was.
What really angers me, is the owner is to coward to answer to his own thread now that a few have expressed there thoughts about his crappie caging.

Look how brave I am holding this large miserable half dead croc, this reminds me of the king cobra tribe, they handle these poor so snakes to the point that the snakes give up on life. Man some peoples I would love to beat some sense into!

Thanks for the oportunity to vent.

This is great stuff fellas! To think I've been ignoring the pleas of my wife and children for a computer all this time. I think I'll have my own (monitor) book burning party (save one) out in my back yard. As usual, I thank you for taking the time to share your wealth of knowledge and experience with me.

Roger

C'mon man gimme a break!!!!