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I was on the phone with my wife when she took them out of the box and put them in their terrarium. Later in the day she called me just to tell me how funny they were, so I had high expectations.

I finally got home after work and marched straight to the terrarium. From what I can figure out, they are most likely from Texas. Eve has a picture on her suncharmers site with a female that is a dead ringer for one of them. I found another website that lists them by location, so its possible that they are from Mexico or Colorado, but Texas looks like the best fit on both web sites.

So then, I wanted to know whether I was dealing with boys or girls. Both lizards were basking at 104 degrees. I figured they would be twitchy and run away when I reached in, but they were totally calm. Didn't try to bite me, didn't try to run away. I got a firm grip on one of them, the smaller one. It has a tail nip. I flipped it over and looked at the femoral pores and the scales behind the vent as outlined on the suncharmers site. BIG scales. A boy. When I counted how many went across the tail under the vent, I only get about 9 or so in a straight line before they are curving out of view. I remembered from the website that you can count about 9 or so across the male, but something like 18 for the females. I'm confident that the tail nipped one is a male, and a subadult based on his size and color compared to the other lizard.

So then I reached in and picked up the bigger one, marveling that I didn't pull back a nub. No tail nip on this one. Flipped it over, and it was a she. I counted about 18 scales below the vent. No black spots, but I don't think I needed them. My guess is that she is full grown, or almost full grown.

I feel lucky that I got calm animals that were one of each sex and very young. Not bad for a "blind" purchase of alleged former zoo animals. I kind of believe it. No mites.

The female is alert and all over the place. The male is a little less alert. He feeds and everything, but just seems a little "sleepy"...I wonder if he wants to brumate? When he basks, he does so with eyes half open. I know sleepy lizards are a sign of poor health, so I'm going to see how he does for a couple days since I have no idea if he was kept at a good temperature. If you all don't agree that a lizard that wants to brumate will appear a little lethargic or sleepy but still hunt and eat, then I'll deworm him. Opinions?

So emotionally what do I think? All I can say is "WOW!" I've never had any experience with Collareds, and I swear they are the perfect lizard. They are a good size so they don't eat you out of house and home, they are about as "friendly" as you could expect from a lizard, they dig, they jump, they climbed on the top of the rocks I had in the back cage and used the plant to jump up to the top of the basking area. I saw one run on its hind legs the length of the cage. They even crawled down into the artificial caves to sleep when I shut off the heat lamp. They remind me of overactive baby bearded dragons. Beautiful colors and interesting color morphs for the collector in me. Just all-around Super cool lizards. After one day with them, my wife and I truly feel that we'll have them for life.

I'm really happy I stumbled across Eve's website looking up information on chuckwallas. Serendipity.

Steve

Steve, I thought you were going to do some Impressions of Collared Lizards, my bad, sorry, just kidding.

Yes Collared Lizards are very energetic and full of personality so welcome to the insanity that is the addiction of Collared Lizards. You have a bonus in that your wife has become an addict.

Here are pics of my collards. Set me straight if I'm guessing the sex wrong...I'm going by the scales behind the vent.

See how the male looks a tad sleepy? He's not as energetic, but still eating, hunting, and even runs around somewhat. Is this how they look when they want to brumate?

Hey Steve awesome glad you both love them, knew ya would.

I would need a better pic but from what I can see, seems you may have it backwards, the top pic definitely the male is on the right , looks female (left)

middle pic is your MALE, the sleepy on your holding on the bottom looks female in the pic, I KNOW the middle one is MALE.

Get a better closer pic of the sleepy one LOL
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PHEve / Eve

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Eve,

Thanks for the information. I'm attaching the only other clear picture I have which you are saying is the male. I don't think that I confused the size of the scales behind the vent, but maybe I did. Or perhaps both are male, because IIRC, the little one certainly did have only like 9 scales behind the vent when viewed from above (i.e., not looking "around the corners". I'm at a disadvantage because my camera doesn't like close-ups. Maybe I can incorporate a magnifying glass somehow as I value your opinion.

What attributes makes you think that the big one is a male?

Also, I don't know if it is relevant, but I saw the big one nip at the shoulder of the small one only one time, but did not try to mount it. I didn't know whether this was exclusively male behavior, or just a "I'm bigger than you.." kind of reminder.

Steve

The middle guy is male, yes the pic you just posted is not a good to go by as far as seeing his just his back, LOL thats okay, thats the same guy that was in your middle pic,,,,,,

MALE
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PHEve / Eve

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Cool. One mystery solved. So since the other one is smaller and lighter color, that either means it is a subadult male or a female, but how to tell? What should I look for besides the scales behind the vent and the femoral pores?

Other than the big one nipping the next of the little one once, they show no agression toward one another. So I'm curious about the following:

1. When does this nipping occur? Do only males nip?

2. If you don't let your collareds brumate, are they lethargic? My wife told me it took them a few hours before they even came out of the rocks they were hiding in this morning, and even now, the larger (and more alert one), is going back and forth between the cooler hiding place and the basking area.

3. I have one fully grown male, and I think the subadult may be a male too. How old does the younger smaller one have to be before they start showing aggression?

If anyone has answers to these or insights, I'd appreciate the feedback. Hate to keep pestering Eve because it takes away from the time she could be communing with her lizards.

Steve

You keep saying the pores behind the vent, I hope you mean right under the vent, thats where you look the scales right below the slit.

I think you have a pair, I know the one is male, the other looks female, but the pic is just mainly of her head, LOL but does look female.

They can still mate even if not brumated, happens all the time, but sometimes they are not as fertile. Sometimes the male will not be interested. Depends !

The females can be quite aggressive and will nip for food at times, and will nip to keep male away at times. If he were to try and mate he would grab her by the neck or bite her somwhere and grab on.
You would notice head bobing, pushups, or what we call pelvic dragging, they drag their back end along the ground and go in a circular motion. If she were to accept his advances she will just stand their and allow him to mate.
If she is refusing she will arch her back high , sometimes roll over, sometimes even get on his back (to say leave me alone)

I forget what other questions you asked, LOL someone eles can answer if ya need help. Anyway try and get another pic of the sleepy one face, even turn her upside down and snap a pic of her vent area does not hav eot be super close.
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PHEve / Eve

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Thanks, Eve. For this response and the indoctrination in general.

Yep, I meant below the vent or under the vent, as pointed out in the sexing page of your suncharmers site. The photos you have there are straight forward...and based on that alone, my smaller lizard looks more like a male than the larger one...which has me concerned. I'll try and get photos.

I did see my larger male bob its head once at the smaller one, and then nip it on the neck and do a partial mount. This could be good evidence that I have a pair, unless a large male might do that to a younger male as a dominance ritual?

I'm asking too many questions...

Steve

Yeah, now looking at their pictures and comparing them to other photos of males and females available on the internet, I can completely see what you mean with assigning my "girl" a male status. He's very male looking. Also seems like the little one is a girl based on the lack of spots on the throat, the skin tightness on the throat, and probably in general because they get along so well except for the male's advances.

Well, now I can come up with sex-appropriate names.

Steve

Those are some very beautiful lizards, congratulations. Don't you just love the way they resemble a T-rex. The one may be lethargic from shipping so I'd give it a few days.
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Today is the first day of the rest of your life.

Missed your post. Thanks for the feedback. The lethargy is stressing me somewhat...I really like that little guy...er, I mean girl? Thats definitely my plan...to wait and see. Maybe they have jetlag. What really bites is that there are no good reptile vets in this town. I've been raising reptiles for about 16 years and I've tried a bunch of vets but never been happy. Even had a Vet O.D. and kill one of them. The best vets just run the tests I request.

Steve

Steve I did notice in your terrarium pictures that there isn't a waterbowl. I provide Bonnie, Clyde, & Bugsy with waterbowls and will spray a rock with water they will lap at it and they know where the waterbowl is. Perhaps they are a little dehydrated.

Oh and I can tell you all about the female lizard and how she turns down the males advances. Bonnie my femal collared does everything except strap on a chastity belt to prevent Clyde from mating with her. Let's see, stands on his head, lays on him, nips at him, pushes him away and the poor guy continues to head bob.

Thanks for this! I'll call my wife and have her water them right away. I think dehydration can cause lethargy too.

LOL about the ways the female spurns the advances of the male.

Steve