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ARGENTINE RAINBOW BOA

choppy Feb 09, 2007 05:53 AM

Hi

Have a breeding pair that gave birth last year ,they share the same viv and have done for the past 4 years problem is they have mated again this year and she def gravid

Is it o.k. for her to breed every year ? do not want to harm her health in any way

Do not like to separate them they get on so well together and would mean setting up another viv and I am out of room unless I put him in with his son from their first birth four yours o.k. but thing this would probably stress both of them

Have been told if he is in the same house she would probably still ovalate so might as well leave them together ,only problem is finding homes for the babies

What would you advise ?

Kind regards

Celia

Replies (12)

DMong Feb 09, 2007 02:10 PM

Well,...to be honest, although it might seem that they "ENJOY" each other's company, the fact is they only tolerate each other!. Snakes are not "programmed" for companionship as dogs and other animals are......also, she might very well keep producing every year(sometimes not), but in actuality, her life span is more than likely being "used up", with much of her energy resources being depleted for the production of her neonates(babies)every year,and will probably live a shorter pet life that you could continue enjoying........As for getting rid of the surplus babies, you can advertise here in the "Kingsnake. com" classifieds(although you will have to ship), or you can sell them at a good price as a "package deal" to local pet shops many times. Also, your area "Bargain Trader" is another good option. newspaper, ect..There are many people that like Rainbows out there!!.......hope this helps,.......................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

paulbuck Feb 09, 2007 09:09 PM

Hi Doug,
I do not think it is a fact that snakes don't enjoy each others company. It maybe a probability but we just do not know this. As hobbyist we like to assume that these animals we keep in very small enclosures do not have the same attributes that some of the 'higher' animals have, if we did we'd have to acknowledge a certain amount of cruelty on our part.
I keep a group of Brazilian Rainbow Boas together in a large enclosure, two of which are the offspring of the original pair. In six years the female has given birth twice and threw slugs one year. I hope I'm not shortening her life expectancy by this arraingment. They appear to get along and some individuals seem to actually enjoy each other (I tend to anthropomorphize things).
Heres a recent pic of the mother and daughter sharing a bath. They held this position for a couple of hours. But I have to say I do not know what they are doing.


Paul

choppy Feb 12, 2007 10:50 AM

Hi Paul

thanks for your input i tend to anthropomorphize pets too

i guess we will never know for certain and they heve the option of being apart but they alway in the together ,even when out in there "play area "

guess i will see how thing go

cheers Celia

markg Feb 12, 2007 08:20 PM

You know, I used to think that snakes were solitary. But then, I kept some adult kingsnakes in a large cage one Winter. The main breeding pair stayed together all Winter and bred in Spring.

After mating, they stayed near one another off and on. He didn't mind her;she wanted a place to lay eggs, and he was an annoyance to her.

Point is, in a friggin sweaterbox, we cannot have any idea how snakes really behave socially. In a bigger enclosure, we may see a better picture, but still not the whole picture.

There is no reason that, just like taking a snapshot in time of human relations, you won't find snakes together, apart, separated, looking for mates, running off to find a nest site, returning to a mate, etc. It is not all or none, one way or another for all.

It is silly to believe that snakes breed in the wild by "happening" on one another in all cases. How can an animal that is so adept at hiding and so secretive suddenly find a mate. No, they are likely in proximity to one another. They compete for the best hide spots, food sources, etc, and the breeders that continue to reproduce stay near each other or return to one another each season until one or the other leaves for some reason or dies or is replaced by a new breeder. There is a social order to some extent. It is not a random group like electrons or something. That would be chaos for the population.

If your snakes are breeding, then they are breeding. If you don't want babies, then you will have to separate. And there is no evidence that breeding reduces lifespan. As long as the female's needs are met (adequate calories, moisture, etc) she can produce. And in nature, they produce as much and as often as food supply and conditions allow. They don't stop themselves.

DMong Feb 12, 2007 10:54 PM

Certainly everyone has the right their opinions, and believe what they wish. However, what I mentioned about snake interaction is based on my forty years of experience of working with, and breeding many different species of snakes. If this was based on owning only a few snakes, You might have a very valid point. But I have owned, studied, and bred literally hundreds upon hundreds of them, as well as studied quite extensively, the husbandry, genetics, and taxonomy of many, with a very abundant library of snake literature as well on years of field studies, and snake behavior..........snakes lives are basically run by very simple instincts, and pheromones......bottom line......best regards,........................................Doug

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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

paulbuck Feb 13, 2007 12:47 AM

Doug,
Your comment 'snakes lives are basically run by very simple instincts, and pheromones......bottom line' could pertain to all animals (including ourselves). How basic is it to 'enjoy' the company of another of the same species, or even another species? I like the 'bottom line' part; indicates a pretty inflexible stance. Really the deal here is you made an assumption and got called on it. It is still an assumption; your vast experience has'nt provided any facts regarding whether a snake likes the occasional company of another. Please just say it is your opinion; I'd hate to think some impressionable individual would take what you say as fact.
Who knows, maybe somebody will decide to set up a huge vivarium that attempts to mimic to a small degree the environment that their captive is native to and gives them a member of the opposite sex to share it with. Can't be a bad thing.
By all means, not the 'bottom line'.

Paul

Certainly everyone has the right their opinions, and believe what they wish. However, what I mentioned about snake interaction is based on my forty years of experience of working with, and breeding many different species of snakes. If this was based on owning only a few snakes, You might have a very valid point. But I have owned, studied, and bred literally hundreds upon hundreds of them, as well as studied quite extensively, the husbandry, genetics, and taxonomy of many, with a very abundant library of snake literature as well on years of field studies, and snake behavior..........snakes lives are basically run by very simple instincts, and pheromones......bottom line......best regards,........................................Doug

rainbowsrus Feb 13, 2007 09:55 AM

Hi Doug, I believe you do have lots of experience and from that experience you are quite free to draw your own conclusions. Those conclusions are just that, conclusions based on your experiences, not necessarily fact. I myself am still sitting that fence. I see my Colombian (see I do know how to spell it) boas after apparently done breeding still hanging out together. Does that mean they're forced to because they're in the same cage or because for some reason it's good for them, I can't really say. Maybe it's beneficial for the female to have the males mass to help with temp regulation.

My bottom line is I've seen you on this and other occasions post your opinion then defend it like it is fact. Including lashing out at someone who disagrees. This should be a happy place where we can come and discuss these topics and get opinions without fear of being pointed out as wrong or stupid for having our opinion.

>>Certainly everyone has the right their opinions, and believe what they wish. However, what I mentioned about snake interaction is based on my forty years of experience of working with, and breeding many different species of snakes. If this was based on owning only a few snakes, You might have a very valid point. But I have owned, studied, and bred literally hundreds upon hundreds of them, as well as studied quite extensively, the husbandry, genetics, and taxonomy of many, with a very abundant library of snake literature as well on years of field studies, and snake behavior..........snakes lives are basically run by very simple instincts, and pheromones......bottom line......best regards,........................................Doug
>>
>>
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>>Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
13.24 BRB
12.14 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

DMong Feb 13, 2007 11:36 AM

A while back, I agree, there were several posts(by others as well) that certainly got out of hand......these recent posts were by no means meant to be offensive. Although there were several remarks by others that certainly were meant to be. I actually meant them to be informative. Sometimes people interpret my "strait-forwardness" as being nasty, when this is not the case at all...... but I will apologize to any that were offended.......................................Doug
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Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!

markg Feb 13, 2007 02:53 PM

You didn't offend me in the least. I would bet everyone agrees that this is a public forum of sorts, as long as you sign up, and all opinions stated with the intent of spreading knowledge or instigating thought are welcome.

paulbuck Feb 13, 2007 12:52 AM

Good post. I do think however, that female snakes can and do stop themselves from breeding if they're not in tip-top form in the wild. Its in captivity that I think they get into problems because of the small range of conditions given them.
Thanks,
Paul

choppy Feb 13, 2007 03:42 AM

many thanks for all your input ,certainly given me something to "chew on"
As there seems to be such diverse oppions based on personnel experience, guess for now going with my "gut instinct" and leaving them together (for the time being any way )
If their behavuour pattern does change then i will definately rethink their current set up as we are all learning new things every day

cheers Celia

choppy Feb 12, 2007 03:27 AM

thanks Doug
do admit i do tend to anthropmorphise all the Pets especiall y our chameleon,but i swear he has expressions !

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